Fantastic Beasts and how we live with them

[CatrionaGrace]

What beasties share or have shared your life? This is the place to tell your favorite dog stories, horse adventures, catastrophies, goat ropes, bird-brained experiences, and similar tales of entities with tails. The thread is a spinoff from the That Moment When thread where we got carried away talking about dogs.

 

[Trish]

I guess I'll just carry on here and respond to the last thing you said in the hijack posts

I agree about not using treats as rewards. I only use treats as a reward to reinforce behaviors they're really struggling with. The vast majority of the time "yes" and/or "good boy/girl" is all the reward they need. They get bedtime treats and play times, but even those are used as training reinforcement.

Picture of Barnaby for tax (hopefully it loads)

https://imgur.com/a/MngAkdD

 

[JT Woody]

This is my Mugen!
He is VERY treat motivated, anxious, overly attached, and nervous around other animals and people (especially toddlers). Got him as a newly weened puppy from an animal rescue during COVID closure


This is Jyn!
Very praise motivated. Loves to do a good job. loves hugs. loves all kinds of people (has even followed a random stranger into their house and made herself at home on their couch ). Loves other animals and will often "mother" them. we got her from animal control when she was 8months old

 

[JT Woody]

I will add,
I took Mugen to puppy school to a) socialize him and b) teach him basic commands.
He grasped the basic commands like sit, stay, come, stop, no, and yes. but he expects treats as a reward. so he will sit, and i will praise him... but if he doesnt get a treat, he'll stand up and do what he wants.
if he sees i have treats, he will sit and stay for however long it takes to get a treat.

BUT, he does like praise. just not when he's given a command
ALSO, he didnt want to socialize with the other pups in puppy school. he's very attached to Jyn in public

 

[CatrionaGrace]

Love the photos. I'll see if I can figure out how to post photos myself.

At the peak of our coexistence with animals, we had four dogs, eight cats, four horses, and two goats. Yes, basically my children were raised in a barn. The cat population doubled when my husband brought home a pregnant female stray who promptly produced three kittens. That's nothing compared to the current situation on my son's ranch where the Bernese recently produced ten puppies.

Currently my husband and I are down to two older kitties and a single young dog in our own household. My son has seven or eight equines, including two giant mules, ergo I can get a horse fix when I need one. He trains horses, so there are usually one or two on the place that don't belong to him. Actually, the biggest mule (17.5 hands) technically belongs to me since my son bought him with the proceeds from the sale of my cow/calf unit after he sold the herd a couple of years ago. If you'd like to read one of our adventures with equines, you can find it HERE

 

[CatrionaGrace]

 

[Trish]

I will add,
I took Mugen to puppy school to a) socialize him and b) teach him basic commands.
He grasped the basic commands like sit, stay, come, stop, no, and yes. but he expects treats as a reward. so he will sit, and i will praise him... but if he doesnt get a treat, he'll stand up and do what he wants.
if he sees i have treats, he will sit and stay for however long it takes to get a treat.

BUT, he does like praise. just not when he's given a command
ALSO, he didnt want to socialize with the other pups in puppy school. he's very attached to Jyn in public

Poor guy. Have you been working on a plan to build his confidence? Or worked with him in public away from Jyn? As far as him knowing you have treats and waiting forever, you can build on that. Make him wait longer and longer before getting that treat. Then start doing things while he's waiting, work up to walking away from him while he's waiting, etc. It's not ideal that he's so devoted to the treat, but definitely workable.

Also Jyn sounds hilarious.

 

[JT Woody]

If you'd like to read one of our adventures with equines, you can find it HERE

"Squishy, Blue, Woodrow, Yeti" i LOVE the names!
Why is "Squishy" named that?

 

[JT Woody]

Have you been working on a plan to build his confidence? Or worked with him in public away from Jyn?

I spoke with a vet about it. He gets so scared at the vet, he trembles, hides behind me and drools. no amount of peanut butter or cheese will get him to come out from behind me. If i go on a trip and he's left for a long time (in someone elses care... like my sister or parents), he'll cry and sit by the door and wont let anyone touch him. and then have accidents in the house. he's gotten used to my parents, though, and i think its because Jyn is so comfortable around them.

the vet suggested i put him on Prozac while i work with his confidence.

I take him out on walks and runs, just me and him. When he sees people, he moves to my other side away from them. but once, he did let an elderly couple sit beside us on a bench, and even allowed the elderly man to pat him on the head. so thats progress.

 

[Trish]

Love the photos. I'll see if I can figure out how to post photos myself.

At the peak of our coexistence with animals, we had four dogs, eight cats, four horses, and two goats. Yes, basically my children were raised in a barn. The cat population doubled when my husband brought home a pregnant female stray who promptly produced three kittens. That's nothing compared to the current situation on my son's ranch where the Bernese recently produced ten puppies.

Currently my husband and I are down to two older kitties and a single young dog in our own household. My son has seven or eight equines, including two giant mules, ergo I can get a horse fix when I need one. He trains horses, so there are usually one or two on the place that don't belong to him. Actually, the biggest mule (17.5 hands) technically belongs to me since my son bought him with the proceeds from the sale of my cow/calf unit after he sold the herd a couple of years ago. If you'd like to read one of our adventures with equines, you can find it HERE

The most dogs I ever had at once was 5 (female Kuvasz - Shooey [I had no part in her name], male Great Pyrenees - Judge, male Golden Retriever - Drake, female Aus. Cattle Dog - Pooh Bear, and female Leonberger, Ginger) and that really isn't something I want to repeat Two is a good number though. Both cats we've had in the last 23 years have been males who believe they are dogs and dislike cats, so just one cat at a time. Current old man cat is named Catface. We have about 60 chickens and 4 rabbits at the moment. In the past we've raised quail and turkeys. I've always had access to horses and love them, but have never owned one. I also love goats, from a distance

 

[Trish]

Separation anxiety is hard, I'm glad he does well with your parents though. What does he do if the vet takes him in the back away from you? Or if anyone does?

What does "he won't let anyone touch him" mean? Aggression or panic?

I take him out on walks and runs, just me and him. When he sees people, he moves to my other side away from them. but once, he did let an elderly couple sit beside us on a bench, and even allowed the elderly man to pat him on the head. so thats progress.

Have you looked into desensitization training? It's where you take them somewhere that they can see or hear things that scare them, but you don't get close enough to cause that response. So let's say afraid of people - you take him to where there are a lot of people (outside of a mall, park, etc.) but you go as close as you can without eliciting a fear response (which could be 100 ft or 500. The important thing is that once you find that place just on the edge of a reaction - you just chill there. Sit down and read a book. Relax. Ignore him. Give him time to self-regulate and relax. Once he's relaxed, fully, give him a little time in that state, then tell him what a good boy he is and reward him. Move on with your day. Tomorrow, get a little closer.

Also, with a dog like him it's super important you don't let people or animals come up on him. If they try, your goal should be to get in front of him before he gets behind you. This teaches him that he doesn't have to protect himself and be hyper aware. You will take care of him. Other than necessary care like the Vet, no strangers should ever be approaching him when he's nervous, he chooses if he wants to interact (appropriately of course, if he's approaching aggressively or wants to steal a burger, he doesn't get to do that and you should remove him from the situation immediately).

 

[That Guy Named Aaron]

My all-time favorite pet story is one I cannot tell in detail, but let's just sum it up by saying my pet cat at the time didn't care for one young lady I brought home one time, and in the middle of horizontal adventures, my cat came into the room, jumped up on the bed, and swatted her.

My cat also didn't like my wife when we first started dating. There would be several mornings when Wifey would go to get dressed only to find that the cat had dragged her clothes out of my bedroom and to the other end of the place.

 

[JT Woody]

What does "he won't let anyone touch him" mean? Aggression or panic?

panic. He's never attacked anyone.
he will whimper and scramble away from them and out of their reach, which means, whereever i am in the room, he will wedge himself between me and the wall, or "hide" between my legs if im not standing against the wall or bench.
Sadly, i think thats a product of COVID.
The vets werent open to the public. Vet techs would come out to our car, and take him into the vet. then return him to the car. Mugen was a puppy, so they took him out of my car, neutered him, then returned him. when he got his vaccines, they took him from my car. He swallowed his puppy pad once and had to have his stomach pumped.... they took him from my car, etc.

So i think he associates the vet with "they take me away and hurt me."

(Jyn loves the vet, btw. she goes behind the desk and lets them love all over her and happily goes into the room for some cheese whiz and belly rubs)

I'll work on the desensitization... but it makes me sad
i dont want to stress him out and i hate seeing him so anxious.

With other people and dogs, i do move him away from them and i let them know he's nervous. I was looking into vests for him to wear that says "ask to pet" or "anxious animal". a child DID run up to him once and wanted to pet him, and Mugen barked at him and tried to run back home (he was on a leash).
luckily, the parent yanked their kid back and told the kid not to run up to dogs and to ask first.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

"Squishy, Blue, Woodrow, Yeti" i LOVE the names!
Why is "Squishy" named that?

Squishy is short for "Sasquatch" and sort of describes his personality, too, bless his squirrely heart.

My Lab/Pyrenees boy is named McDuff, so we can yell, "Lay down, McDuff" as necessary. Cats are Ziva and Greco. Over the years, we've had (among others) a Gordon setter named Lysistrata, a shepherd mix named Caliburn, a Lab named Boudreaux, and cats named Agapantha, Helix, and Gramarye (yes, she was black). My son rebelled against our naming traditions and called his full-blood Arabian "Hank." Yep. Hank the Arabian stallion.

Speaking of animals, I'm headed out to the ranch now to visit the puppies, equines, and incidentally my son.

 

[Trish]

Sadly, i think thats a product of COVID.

So i think he associates the vet with "they take me away and hurt me."

Yeah, a lot of COVID pups had it rough, and continue to suffer for it. You have 2 options to hopefully make it a little easier on you and him. The first option is "fun visits" which he won't think are fun of course, but will hopefully help. You take him in to the vet randomly (ask them for the best/quietest times). Since he's afraid of people, you just ask to sit in the waiting room for a few minutes and then leave. You can reward him just for being there, but based on your description it will be a while before he would consider accepting anything if he gets that upset.

The second option would be to find another vet he doesnt have associations with or/even better for just vaccines/yearly exam a clinic. I don't know where you live, but here our farm stores have vaccine days (for us its every saturday) where vets come in and do annual exams and vaccines. You can't use them for sick visits or bloodwork, but very often, if you ask nicely, they will happily come outside to do your dogs exam/vaccines at the end of their hours. I had to do this with my Kuvasz who came to me as an adult with lots of anxieties, particularly being in a building of any kind (that was heartbreaking). She was a working dog and had been outdoors her whole life. She was also 130 lbs of muscle and when she was angry or scared it was quite the workout. They would come outside, and when I saw them coming I'd stand with my legs on either side of her shoulders and lean over her back and rub her belly like she liked while my husband stood behind me at her face/head. He'd control her head, open her mouth, etc. so the doc could see what he needed to and be safe and then he'd move to her back, do her temp and stuff, give vaccines, and she was done. It always went very quickly and she did very well. It wasn't no stress but it was as low stress as we could make it for her. The one time she was injured and had to go to the ER, she had to be completely tranquilized outside of the vehicle before we could take her in. Sadly, though she was improving, I never got to get her over it as that injury brought to light an advanced case of osteosarcoma and with her temperament, treatment would have been absolute torture for her so we had to let her rest

I'll work on the desensitization... but it makes me sad
i dont want to stress him out and i hate seeing him so anxious.

I totally understand, but with consistency and work, the hope is to get him beyond that. Where he's calm and relaxed in these situations and confident instead of terrified. It's absolutely heartbreaking, I know, but every stride they make is so rewarding and worth it. And with desensitization, you don't want him to be stressed. You gave him just outside the stress zone, and you keep him there until he fully relaxes. Could be 30 minutes, could be 3 hours, which is why I said bring a book.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

The dog in the photo is Red. Started out as Bear. When he was still a pup, they took him on a week-long trail ride. Pup headed off on his own adventure while they were tacking up at the trailhead. Son yelled, "Bear!" to call him back. People in the vicinity grabbed bear spray and yelled, "WHERE?"

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Great theme for a thread.
Our three dogs are Gus, the wonderdog border collie who, in the absence of sheep, spends his time herding Bonnie the dwarf springer and their daughter Cassie, except they're not to be herded and mostly ignore him. Bonnie obsessively wants to fetch when we're outside, stones if there's no ball nearby. She mostly finds them too, long grass or no. She'll drop boulders at our feet to throw for her, so we try to keep a sliotar nearby (slightly smaller than a baseball). Cassie pretends to be excited when outside with the others, joining their burst for about three yards before turning back for petting.

Gus is, sometimes simultaneously, the cleverest and stupidest dog I've encountered. We learned early to keep food out of reach when we leave the house because he'll open jars and even those squeezy mayonaise containers and eat as far as his tongue will reach. He'll open doors to let himself in and lift both latches in windows, push it open and jump out, but that's mostly when the neighbour's dog is in heat. He's 11 now but when he was about two I started strimming grass, putting Gus inside in case he tried to catch the strimming cord, closed all the doors and made sure he didn't have access to the windows. Few minutes in, I hear a scuffle, look up at my son's bedrrom window and Gus has the window open, climbs through and jumps the 20 or so feet onto concrete. He got away with it, just a scratch on his knee and chin but really looked like he had time to reconsider his choices on the drop down to the ground.

 

[Trish]

Great theme for a thread.
Our three dogs are Gus, the wonderdog border collie who, in the absence of sheep, spends his time herding Bonnie the dwarf springer and their daughter Cassie, except they're not to be herded and mostly ignore him. Bonnie obsessively wants to fetch when we're outside, stones if there's no ball nearby. She mostly finds them too, long grass or no. She'll drop boulders at our feet to throw for her, so we try to keep a sliotar nearby (slightly smaller than a baseball). Cassie pretends to be excited when outside with the others, joining their burst for about three yards before turning back for petting.

Gus is, sometimes simultaneously, the cleverest and stupidest dog I've encountered. We learned early to keep food out of reach when we leave the house because he'll open jars and even those squeezy mayonaise containers and eat as far as his tongue will reach. He'll open doors to let himself in and lift both latches in windows, push it open and jump out, but that's mostly when the neighbour's dog is in heat. He's 11 now but when he was about two I started strimming grass, putting Gus inside in case he tried to catch the strimming cord, closed all the doors and made sure he didn't have access to the windows. Few minutes in, I hear a scuffle, look up at my son's bedrrom window and Gus has the window open, climbs through and jumps the 20 or so feet onto concrete. He got away with it, just a scratch on his knee and chin but really looked like he had time to reconsider his choices on the drop down to the ground.

Gus sounds hilarious. We had a springer spaniel named Freckles that was just like that when I was a kid. He was a master escape artist and anything involving food was simple, but he also would get easily distracted and walk into walls

 

[Pik]

I had smaller animals when I was a kid (that could fit into apartment). Thinking about getting a dog in the past few months (still live in the apartment) but don't yet know yet if I should due to my lifestyle and obligations. I like cats too but worry that it would walk out through the window to the rooftop (happened to my friends) and there're pidgeons and other birds around, could be trouble. If I decide to get an animal it will be a smaller dog most likely.