Question marks

[Bakkerbaard]

Another one I was just reminded of, though I've been meaning to ask someone this for quite a while now.
Obviously I know when to use a question mark, I'm not that sad, but in the case of a put-down sort of sentence, it becomes guesswork to me.

"Yeah, you would know that, wouldn't you."

Obviously, the sentence looks like a question, which would need a question mark. But the tone in my head, and as I want it to be in the reader's head, is dismissive. It's not a question. The sentence is not supposed to do that little upward twang a question has at the end.
Yet a lot of time I see it suggested as a correction.

How would I punctuate a dismissive remark like that?

 

[Naomasa298]

A question mark does not automatically imply a rising tone. People will read it to themselves as a falling tone, if the intention is clear that it is a put down.

 

[THUNDAIR]

I looked into adding punctuation to a rhetorical question, and the suggestion at the time was to use an exclamation for emphasis.

 

[Louanne Learning]

"Yeah, you would know that, wouldn't you."

My vote is for using a question mark, just because it is a question.

 

[Hammer]

I would consider an interrobang...

Depends what, and for whom, you are writing, and it depends whether there is a house style, but the interrobang is quite widely used; "Yeah, you would know that, wouldn't you?!"

 

[Naomasa298]

Maybe indicate that it falls in tone.

Yeah, you would know that, wouldn't you¿

 

[Bakkerbaard]

People will read it to themselves as a falling tone, if the intention is clear that it is a put down.

The intention, as well as the tone, are clear, I believe. My problem is more that the question mark undoes that.

the suggestion at the time was to use an exclamation for emphasis.

But the exclamation suggests a raised voice, which is not the case here.

I would consider an interrobang...

Those are reserved for when I have no other way of showing shocked surprise.
I first saw an interrobang in a Donald Duck comic when I was too young to be concerned with any kind of punctuation, so I spent ages looking at that picture trying to figure out how to pronounce "?!"

Maybe indicate that it falls in tone.

Yeah, you would know that, wouldn't you¿

And now it's Spanish.
I'm gonna save that for when I achieve international success. ;o)

 

[Naomasa298]

My problem is more that the question mark undoes that.

As I said before, it doesn't.

 

[Bakkerbaard]

As I said before, it doesn't.

I've been staring at it, and my head keeps turning it into a real question.
I'm just gonna cut off "wouldn't you" and never look at it again.

 

[Also]

The thing is, it isn't actually a question — it merely resembles one. There are two different meanings, two different intonations, and two different sentences here, entirely depending on whether you use the period or the QM.

If you want an authority on this, I give you no less than Benjamin Dreyer:

copyeditorial reëxamination

[further notes on The New Yorker (yes, The New Yorker)]

benjamindreyer.substack.com

To wit:

To be sure, the antique acute accents in “décor” and “début” are also pretty, but one is not Edith Wharton, is one.

You’d think that that would, logically, be “disspiriting,” wouldn’t you.

He probably addresses the question directly somewhere in Dreyer's English, but it's absolutely sufficient to see how he punctuates such statements in his own writing.

 

[Also]

Key to these examples is that "is one" and "wouldn't you" are idiomatic fragments attached to the end of an actual declarative statement for emphasis.

If you turned them around into ordinary rhetorical questions — Is one Edith Wharton? Would you not think that that would logically be disspiriting? Would you know that? — then they would require the question mark. They would also be intoned as actual questions, albeit rhetorical, so there's nothing inconsistent in these separate choices.

 

[JLT]

He probably addresses the question directly somewhere in Dreyer's English, but it's absolutely sufficient to see how he punctuates such statements in his own writing.

Yes, he does.
On page 23, he writes

Feel free to end a question shaped like a question that isn't really a question with a period rather than a question mark. It really makes a statement, doesn't it."

And on page 64:

If---and I'd restrict this bit of advice for more casual prose or the rendering of dialog---a sentence is constructed like a question but isn't intended to be one, you might consider concluding it with a period rather than a question mark. "That's a good idea, don't you think?" means something quite different from "That's a horrible idea, isn't it."

 

[Also]

It really makes a statement, doesn't it.

This is the kind of wit I love from him.

 

[Rath Darkblade]

I meant to put in my tuppenny's worth, but Also and JLT have answered this definitively, I think.

But if I may be allowed to digress, I will only add a note about emphasis. The sentence is: "Yeah, you would know that, wouldn't you."

So, straight away this reminds me of someone talking to (possibly) a P.I. or police officer, who's just learned something about a case.

The "Yeah" at the start doesn't really add much to the sentence, and can be omitted without adding to or detracting from it. (It can indicate either aggression or passive-aggressiveness).

But if the sentence becomes "You would know that, wouldn't you", where does the emphasis lie? In other words, what word is being emphasised? Any of "You", "would", "know", or "that" -- and the tone of the sentence changes slightly, depending on the emphasis:

- "YOU would know that, wouldn't you" - and that's why I'm coming to you. So stop stallin' and spill the beans. (Authoritative tone, appropriate for Chief of Police ... or maybe antagonist);
- "You WOULD know that, wouldn't you" - because you're a know-it-all. Jerk. (Angry tone, appropriate for cheap crook);
- "You would KNOW that, wouldn't you" - right? Right?? Wouldn't you? (Pleading tone, maybe used by PI's associate);
- "You would know THAT, wouldn't you" - but nothin' else, 'cos you're an ignorant baboon. (Aggressive/sarcastic tone, maybe used in interrogation).

Maybe I think too much? Sorry if I am. But that's the way it looks to me. Hope it's some food for thought.

 

[Bakkerbaard]

If you want an authority on this, I give you no less than Benjamin Dreyer:

That's why I come to the forum first. It's full of authorities here, but one more couldn't hurt. ;o)

But if I may be allowed to digress,

I find digression often leads to discoveries.

But if the sentence becomes "You would know that, wouldn't you", where does the emphasis lie? In other words, what word is being emphasised?

Nowhere. Nothing is being emphasized. It's the kind of throwaway thing you say after something says something they would know about.
Like me, for example. I wear band shirts exclusively. Only bands I actually like and could say something about if asked by some uppity Youtuber. It's obviously what my deal is, musically speaking.
So some coworkers were talking about Ozzy (or rather "that guy who just died") recently and I was able to inject some trivia here and there, and they went "yeah, you would know that, wouldn't you."

Anyway, I think the "yeah" is essential here, as it adds to the dismissive tone of the remark.

(Authoritative tone, appropriate for Chief of Police ... or maybe antagonist)

Are you the one person who read my books? Because it's being said to the actual Chief of Police. Except the speaker is her daughter, but how much difference is there between a teen and an antagonist anyway?
Can't be arsed to look up the actual conversation right now, because of a grand three hours of sleep. As the writer I should be able to remember it off the top of my head, but... same excuse.

 

[JLT]

Here's the difference as I see it:
"You would know that, wouldn't you" indicates that no reply is expected.
"You would know that, wouldn't you?" suggests to me that a reply is expected.

I remember reading something about how two words can provide a variety of different nuances depending on emphasis and punctuation:
"You're pregnant."
"You're pregnant!"
"You're pregnant?"
"You're pregnant?"

 

[Naomasa298]

Ah, but people sometimes ask rhetorical questions where they don't expect an answer, don't they?

 

[Bakkerbaard]

"You would know that, wouldn't you" indicates that no reply is expected.

That's the one. No reply expected.
Spellcheckers don't understand that, though, so they'll automatically suggest a question mark, and I suspect that's why betareaders keep tripping on it.

Ah, but people sometimes ask rhetorical questions where they don't expect an answer, don't they?

I was halfway through a "yes, but" before I realized I was walking into a trap. ;o)

 

[Also]

but how much difference is there between a teen and an antagonist anyway?