Day 236: Beta Readers and Collaboration Forum

[Homer Potvin]

Hey hey! I think the date is correct... I used an online calculator!

Just a quick update, I renamed the Collaboration Forum "Beta Readers and Collaboration" to see if we can get more requests for beta-reads. I feel like we should be getting a bunch of these, but the forum is nearly empty. Or maybe there isn't as much interest as I feel there should be? I understand that beta-reading is a big ask on one end and a big commitment on the other, but I feel like we should have writers asking left and right for these. I know I'll be looking for some soon-ish when I get on the horse.

What do y'all think? Is it a thing or not a thing?

 

[Madman Starryteller]

I think some reasons it's under-used may be because:

1. People feel like they don't want to impose upon others.

2. People may feel that their work is not yet ready for public eyes and feedback.

3. Some people may not be able to give back in return as much as they receive. What I mean by this, is that if you get eight beta readers, you may feel overwhelmed or feel that you should give feedback to eight people at the same time. Even if some say they don't need reciprocation.

There may be other reasons as well, of course. At least I feel like these three reasons are why I don't feel comfortable using the sub-board right now.

A solution to this may be to establish a decorum or set of guidelines for that particular board? But that may risk complicating the board as well, which may also reduce traffic. So I don't know.

 

[Naomasa298]

Genuine question - is a forum for writers the sort of place beta readers generally come to?

 

[Homer Potvin]

Genuine question - is a forum for writers the sort of place beta readers generally come to?

You mean beta-readers who aren't writers? Does such a population exist? I mean, I'm sure they do, but how would you even get into that without knowing a bunch of writers... without being a writer yourself?

Good question though.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

Seeking online beta readers isn't a thing for me and never has been. I'm not comfortable turning over my work to someone I don't know either personally or professionally. I don't beta read myelf at all any more. I don't have time, most people are looking for approbation and not genuine feedback, and all I need is someone down the line claiming I stole their ideas.

 

[Homer Potvin]

Seeking online beta readers isn't a thing for me and never has been. I'm not comfortable turning over my work to someone I don't know either personally or professionally. I don't beta read myelf at all any more. I don't have time, most people are looking for approbation and not genuine feedback, and all I need is someone down the line claiming I stole their ideas.

Sort of same-ish for me. It would have to be a forumite I know. Conversely, I don't think I know anyone personally whose opinion I respect on the matter.

 

[Luxuria]

I don't ask for betas, but I do chapter-swaps. Critique for Critique. But I also don't post for Betas on here, because my work is not all-ages material. I also don't want to give disclaimers and stuff. What you read is what you get. I must have 18+ readers for my works. Which leads me to wonder, HOW can we promote betas for Adult works?

 

[Luxuria]

I also think that having a form that is easy for someone to fill out might be good. For example:

Story Name:
Genres:
Plot (1 Paragraph):
Audience:
What I want critiqued, etc.:

 

[CatrionaGrace]

forumite

Sounds like something that was illegal in 19th century Great Britain. Or a formica-eating insect found in 1970s tract houses.

 

[Homer Potvin]

Sounds like something that was illegal in 19th century Great Britain. Or a formica-eating insect found in 1970s tract houses.

Probably still illegal in Wyoming...

 

[big soft moose]

You mean beta-readers who aren't writers? Does such a population exist? I mean, I'm sure they do, but how would you even get into that without knowing a bunch of writers... without being a writer yourself?

Good question though.

Established authors get beta readers from their mailing lists ( if they use them at all), but people starting out don’t have the option so have to rely on other writers

 

[CatrionaGrace]

Probably still illegal in Wyoming...

Damn straight. We don't tolerate having our formica eaten.

 

[Luxuria]

Hey, I am thinking about putting up a story for beta. But it has a lot of adult stuff and wouldn’t be forum suitable. Like a graphic good sex scene, on-screen suicide, self-harm, drugs, etc. Can I still ask for beta readers from here?

 

[JT Woody]

Genuine question - is a forum for writers the sort of place beta readers generally come to?

Yes and no....
I did recommend a person come here (this forum specifically) for beta readers as they had expressed elsewhere how hard it is to find someone who isnt a bot teying to sell.services.

No because....

1. People feel like they don't want to impose upon others.

I feel this....
It feels like im begging. And i k ow i shouldnt feel like this. You guys are all awesome and have been nothing but supportive. But its fallen into the realm of "i know these people and i dont want to be a burden to them" kind of thing.

As someone who did post in that forum, i did get some pretty great beata readers and I am thankful. But, now that its time for betas again, the feeling of burdening others has returned.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

I send an email to members of my local writers' group mentioning I am looking for betas if anyone is looking for something to read. Those who aren't interested can ignore the email. Those who are interested can answer it. I only send it to those whose opinion I value, so I don't have to say, no, thank you to anyone. Has worked so far. I'm not looking for editing, just outstanding problems and over all reactions.

 

[Madman Starryteller]

Seeking online beta readers isn't a thing for me and never has been. I'm not comfortable turning over my work to someone I don't know either personally or professionally. I don't beta read myelf at all any more. I don't have time, most people are looking for approbation and not genuine feedback, and all I need is someone down the line claiming I stole their ideas.

That may be another reason for why people may avoid getting beta readers on the forum, they want to avoid potential social issues, theft, abuse, or drama. All of which this forum is spared for the better part.


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Another reason for why the sub-forum may be under-used could be that there exist larger online spaces for getting beta readers already, and people are perhaps using them foremost?

Which goes back to my first post that perhaps a more structured, guidelined, sub-forum may create an alternative to other places. that may boost participation.

I'm just throwing some things out there now, but some guidelines could be:
When starting a thread the poster follows a formula asking for example, how many beta readers they seek, whether they are willing to reciprocate or not, if they expect the work to be read within a certain timeframe, etc...

Another thing that could be tried is a type of reward system? Someone who beta reads for X number of people could get a forum medal?


Or perhaps the name change Homer just did and this announcement is enough?

 

[JT Woody]

Now that im home and on my laptop, i realize i misread Nao's post (the one i responded to).

Honestly, beta readers (the ones ive encountered elswhere) whonare not writers and only looking to read..... they want to charge money.

I was on a beta reading FB group. Everyone who offered to beta read wanted money.
On Twitter/X, they are bots.
The writers are the ones that will offer to beta at no charge (i swapped work with a writer on X to beta).

 

[Homer Potvin]

That may be another reason for why people may avoid getting beta readers on the forum, they want to avoid potential social issues, theft, abuse, or drama. All of which this forum is spared for the better part.


--------------

Another reason for why the sub-forum may be under-used could be that there exist larger online spaces for getting beta readers already, and people are perhaps using them foremost?

Which goes back to my first post that perhaps a more structured, guidelined, sub-forum may create an alternative to other places. that may boost participation.

I'm just throwing some things out there now, but some guidelines could be:
When starting a thread the poster follows a formula asking for example, how many beta readers they seek, whether they are willing to reciprocate or not, if they expect the work to be read within a certain timeframe, etc...

Another thing that could be tried is a type of reward system? Someone who beta reads for X number of people could get a forum medal?


Or perhaps the name change Homer just did and this announcement is enough?

Have to see how it goes, I guess. If people want it, the opportunity is available to them. I don't see people joining the forum cold and asking for beta-reads from strangers... more of something the vets who have known each other for years might employ. But if that became thing--writers joining specifically to find readers--I could see this being the place for it. Fundamentally, all the Forum does is provide a piece of digital real estate for likeminded individuals to congregate and offer their (free) services. The Forum provides no services of its own. Just some structure, basic guidelines, a few rules, and an impenetrable wall of sentry guns to protect everyone from Internet bullshit. The membership kind of dictates what it does or does not do. Within reason of course.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

an impenetrable wall of sentry guns to protect everyone from Internet bullshit.

Ooo, I want one of those for my emails and web site. I am so tired of entities surfing onto my contact page, offering to flag my book on their instagram page and bring me a zillion new readers for a wee, sma' fee, or to fix all the problems they see with my website, also for a wee, sma' fee, or to edit my book and make it wonderful for a wee, sma' fee. Why would I hire anyone whom spams the universe in search of victims?

 

[big soft moose]

Hey, I am thinking about putting up a story for beta. But it has a lot of adult stuff and wouldn’t be forum suitable. Like a graphic good sex scene, on-screen suicide, self-harm, drugs, etc. Can I still ask for beta readers from here?

yes, with the proviso that you are clear with the beta reader aboutr what they are getting and don't post the content directly to the site...most people share files by email or dropbox/wetransfer etc