Do you have to be be bad at something to ever be good at it? I got the first part taken care of.

[RMBrown]

I have been here before, or maybe it's deja Vu Almost 20 years ago I joined my first forum, then in 2017 joined the first version of this one. I started out only with a desire to be able to write as well as I speak, I have always loved public speaking and storytelling but had poor writing skills. I have written some stories for the local paper, a now defunct motorcycle magazine and tons of short stories. I tend to write either non-fiction or humor. I see many of the old forum members here, kind of like going back to your old neighborhood. You see the name and remember them, One of them still has my baseball, the other used to yell at me for being on their the lawn. Then there are the old friends and past conversations I remember very fondly.

Writing has changed over the years. I doubt there is any real market for the written word. It seems as though most of world seems to be fixated on nothing more than a paragraph on a social media outlet. I have looked at my 3 large binders of short stories from over the years and realize they will just collect dust. Not sure why i write, why I have a desire to tell a story, yet I still do.

Looking forward to reading works from those less jaded than me. Bob

 

[Naomasa298]

You don't *have* to be. It's just that most people are.

Welcome back to the forum!

Have you put your stories out?

 

[JLT]

If you've had stuff published, you can't be all that bad. But it's true that, while future success is never guaranteed when you've written more, that success will never arrive if you haven't.

I've stated elsewhere in this forum that "overnight successes" like the Beatles were never really overnight. The group had played thousands of hours in bars and clubs in England and Germany before they caught the public eye. And the actor who has just become a "new star" has probably put in thousands of hours on television or the stage or in workshops, learning and perfecting their craft.

And if you don't make money from your writing, it has already shaped you as a person, and will continue to shape you. You do it because you like to, and because it makes you more interesting to yourself.

I agree that there's been a dwindling of the market for writing either prose or poetry, as there is a preference for watching over reading. That's been true since the advent of motion pictures and television. It's not a picture that I see changing. We are like the breeders and farriers and trainers of horses, with skills that were marketable a couple hundred years ago but are increasingly irrelevant. But people still ride horses for fun or for profit, and people will still read.

 

[Louanne Learning]

Hello and welcome, I think I remember your username from the old site! Good to see you again.

Please make yourself at home, and looking forward to seeing you in the forums!

 

[RMBrown]

If you've had stuff published, you can't be all that bad. But it's true that, while future success is never guaranteed when you've written more, that success will never arrive if you haven't.



And if you don't make money from your writing, it has already shaped you as a person, and will continue to shape you. You do it because you like to, and because it makes you more interesting to yourself.

Being published is less about skill than understanding the market. Just about every local newspaper is looking for content. People who have the writing skills and interest in the community seem to be in short supply. The trick is to pick a interest that does not draw those with writing skills . I owned a motorcycle business at the time so could speak with authority on a number of topics and I was always willing to submit stories or ideas to an editor. I can still look back over the years and cringe at some of the errors in my work, "that should have been caught by an editor" The other really discouraging thing is when you hand something over to the local paper it is edited for space more often than for content. I have been truly shocked at some of the changes made to some of my pieces which almost made them incoherent.

I love business, I am a workaholic by nature. I spend most of my time and energy on what I can do to make my business better and more profitable. Writing as a business model is like trying to open an ice cream stand in Alaska. The season is short, and there are few customers. People may love ice cream, you might love selling it. It does not mean you'll make any money at it.

I love telling a story that captures the reader, you get to make them smile, mad, apprehensive. Writing is a powerful way to really get into someone's head. I love being able to do that.

 

[RMBrown]

Hello and welcome, I think I remember your username from the old site! Good to see you again.

Please make yourself at home, and looking forward to seeing you in the forums!

Your name also popped up as one of the old familiar faces from the past :}

 

[RMBrown]

You don't *have* to be. It's just that most people are.

Welcome back to the forum!

Have you put your stories out?

I am working on one now. It is supposed to be a real life horror, Going for "This gives me the creeps, I'm looking under the bed even though I know nothing is there." I am not sure I have enough of the female perspective in the story or if I have made the reader fall in love with the main character enough.

Not sure if there is a way to ever tell if you finished editing something. There is always a better word, a better way to say something. I look at writing like a comic looks at a good bit. He may try telling it 50. different ways before finally landing on a hard hitting joke that really rings home. It never comes on the first try. Not for me anyway.

 

[Naomasa298]

It's very easy to get into the trap of never-ending edits, looking for the "perfect" story. There never is one.

The way to think of it is, don't search for the best sounding line. Make it say what you want it to say instead.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

Glad to have you back, RMBrown.

I doubt there is any real market for the written word.

Being published is less about skill than understanding the market.

Writing as a business model is like trying to open an ice cream stand in Alaska. The season is short, and there are few customers. People may love ice cream, you might love selling it. It does not mean you'll make any money at it.

Ahem. Feeling a wee bit discouraged and cynical, are we? Have a grape and reconsider your assumptions about both publication and ice cream consumption.

From IBIS World:

The ice cream production industry in Alaska is a growing market with a projected value of $34.3 million in 2026, featuring 6 businesses and 68 employees. The market experienced an annual growth rate of 3.7 % from 2020 to 2025.

Sounds like Alaska's three-quarters of a million people are eating a lot of ice cream, As for its rank among states in the USA:

Rank	State	Ice Cream Shops per 100,000 residents
1	Vermont	18.51
2	West Virginia	18.08
3	Rhode Island	17.84
4	Pennsylvania	17.58
5	Wisconsin	16.44
6	Illinois	16.12
7	New Mexico	15.89
8	Michigan	15.79
9	New Hampshire	15.54
10	New York	15.35
11	Massachusetts	14.99
12	North Dakota	14.92
13	Ohio	14.90
14	Maine	14.89
15	Nebraska	14.83
16	Alaska	14.79
17	Indiana	14.78
18	Idaho	14.27
19	Delaware	14.05
20	Montana	14.00
21	South Dakota	13.96
22	Hawaii	13.78
23	Florida	13.67
24	New Jersey	13.61
25	Wyoming	13.56
26	Mississippi	13.25
27	Iowa	13.02
28	North Carolina	12.58
29	Texas	12.40
30	Arkansas	12.23
31	California	12.10
32	Arizona	12.09
33	Kansas	11.71
34	Connecticut	11.60
35	Virginia	11.25
36	Oklahoma	10.66
37	Nevada	10.54
38	Utah	10.38
39	Minnesota	10.37
40	Oregon	10.37
41	Tennessee	10.26
42	Louisiana	10.20
43	Georgia	10.00
44	Colorado	9.98
45	Kentucky	9.73
46	Washington	9.43
47	Alabama	9.23
48	South Carolina	8.80
49	Maryland	8.56
50	Missouri	8.44

From dairyherd.com

 

[RMBrown]

Glad to have you back, RMBrown.







Ahem. Feeling a wee bit discouraged and cynical, are we? Have a grape and reconsider your assumptions about both publication and ice cream consumption.

From IBIS World:

The ice cream production industry in Alaska is a growing market with a projected value of $34.3 million in 2026, featuring 6 businesses and 68 employees. The market experienced an annual growth rate of 3.7 % from 2020 to 2025.

Sounds like Alaska's three-quarters of a million people are eating a lot of ice cream, As for its rank among states in the USA:

Rank	State	Ice Cream Shops per 100,000 residents
1	Vermont	18.51
2	West Virginia	18.08
3	Rhode Island	17.84
4	Pennsylvania	17.58
5	Wisconsin	16.44
6	Illinois	16.12
7	New Mexico	15.89
8	Michigan	15.79
9	New Hampshire	15.54
10	New York	15.35
11	Massachusetts	14.99
12	North Dakota	14.92
13	Ohio	14.90
14	Maine	14.89
15	Nebraska	14.83
16	Alaska	14.79
17	Indiana	14.78
18	Idaho	14.27
19	Delaware	14.05
20	Montana	14.00
21	South Dakota	13.96
22	Hawaii	13.78
23	Florida	13.67
24	New Jersey	13.61
25	Wyoming	13.56
26	Mississippi	13.25
27	Iowa	13.02
28	North Carolina	12.58
29	Texas	12.40
30	Arkansas	12.23
31	California	12.10
32	Arizona	12.09
33	Kansas	11.71
34	Connecticut	11.60
35	Virginia	11.25
36	Oklahoma	10.66
37	Nevada	10.54
38	Utah	10.38
39	Minnesota	10.37
40	Oregon	10.37
41	Tennessee	10.26
42	Louisiana	10.20
43	Georgia	10.00
44	Colorado	9.98
45	Kentucky	9.73
46	Washington	9.43
47	Alabama	9.23
48	South Carolina	8.80
49	Maryland	8.56
50	Missouri	8.44

From dairyherd.com

Good post :} So I know there are 15 other states that a ice cream shop would do better in. I picked ice cream as it is one of the few things that just about always brings a smile to someone's face. Ice cream is never associated with a bad time. I like to see someone smile. That being said, as someone who thrives on business, I can tell you what it costs to run my business per minute, per second of every day. I can also tell you what my profit is, per minute as well. I know for my time spent, writing pays poorly, not only that, I have only regretted or not enjoyed writing only a handful of times. They all involved a deadline and being paid. I learned a long time ago the best way to ruin a hobby, you enjoy turning it into a business. I love what I do, but it's pays really well. If I were discouraged I wouldn't be here. I am realistic though. writing is a great hobby.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

Good post :} So I know there are 15 other states that a ice cream shop would do better in. I picked ice cream as it is one of the few things that just about always brings a smile to someone's face. Ice cream is never associated with a bad time. I like to see someone smile. That being said, as someone who thrives on business, I can tell you what it costs to run my business per minute, per second of every day. I can also tell you what my profit is, per minute as well. I know for my time spent, writing pays poorly, not only that, I have only regretted or not enjoyed writing only a handful of times. They all involved a deadline and being paid. I learned a long time ago the best way to ruin a hobby, you enjoy turning it into a business. I love what I do, but it's pays really well. If I were discouraged I wouldn't be here. I am realistic though. writing is a great hobby.

My mom was, and my husband is, capable of eating ice cream outdoors in a blizzard, and considering it a pleasurable experience. Ice cream people are not like the rest of us.

I learned a long time ago the best way to ruin a hobby, you enjoy turning it into a business.

"Find a job you enjoy doing, and you will never have to work a day in your life." Mark Twain, who was a writer, by the way.

Over a lifetime, I morphed from hobby writer to professional. I had plenty of moments of thinking something outside myself was preventing me from being a successful writer, but the truth is, it was always something in me: defeatist attitude, fear that my skills weren't good enough and never would be, denial of how much practice it takes to produce good work, reluctance to learn the business end of writing (lookin' at you, query process), inconsistency, and the idea that being published was more about schmoozing and marketing than it was about producing an exceptional product.

There is nothing wrong with being a hobbyist. Writing is a great hobby. However, being a hobbyist, even one with a few publications on the resume, doesn't qualify one to make assumptions about writing as a vocation and a profession. Being published is less about skill than understanding the market is one of those assumptions. Good marketing is undeniably an asset, but it means bupkes without a good prodect.