How do you “write what you know” when you have bad recall?

[Tallyfire]

I’m terrible at recalling memories. I don’t think my memory is that bad, but if I get a prompt like “tell me about a time you doubted yourself,” I’m stumped. Obviously I’ve doubted myself many times, but recalling a specific memory to talk about it seems like a Herculean task. Most of the time I just can’t do it.

I’ve kept my form of journals for years, and I write about trips and so on, so I’m not lacking in material to “write what you know.” I just don’t know how to pick/find/remember the relevant memory I need for my fiction writing so I can go back in my journals to find the details that really make a scene come alive.

Example: I’m writing a scene in a massive airplane hangar. I’ve been in a hangar before, but I also really want to bring in the feel of the immense size of the place. I’ve been to caverns and the like, and cathedrals, and other massive indoor spaces… but I can’t remember where or when. How do you deal with this kind of thing? Is this a problem for you or is it just so far from your writing method as to be irrelevant?

 

[Naomasa298]

Well, if I'm writing about personal experiences, I use them in broad strokes. I won't relay every detail of the incident, but I will use it to construct a scene in my own writing.

So to take your aircraft hangar example, for me, the where and when wouldn't matter. I would use it to write a scene in a story that takes place in an aircraft hangar, not about the time when I went into one.

 

[Trish]

It sounds like you're taking "write what you know" literally and that's not how it's intended.

Instead, think of it another way. You can't remember every detail of being in an airplane hangar, but I'm sure there's been some point in your life when you felt small in an expansive space. Focus on the feeling of being small, of planes parked like cars in a garage, to get the size across. You said you doubt yourself all the time, so write about the feeling of doubt. Why the doubt came to be is a very small part and can be made up, it's the feeling of doubt that matters.

Unless you're writing an autobiography or a police statement or something - you're allowed to make it up. Use your imagination.

 

[Tallyfire]

Ok, you're right, I'm taking "write what you know" too literally in this sense. My story is set in a mining outpost on a snowy planet somewhere far away. There's obviously not much from that setting I've lived myself, but I do want to add in details for the small things I have experience in (cafeterias, confined living spaces, snow and cold, etc.) to make the scenes come alive.

So my question is actually a different one: How do you add details into scenes when you're not on location?

I can write about the feeling of being in an aircraft hangar. The emotions are all there. That's fine. I get it in broad strokes, like Naomasa said, but I want to go beyond that. It's the details that draw the reader into the setting that I'm missing. For instance, this morning I brushed about 100 ants off a green slide in the park so my kid could go down the slide without becoming a walking ant graveyard. This is the kind of thing I would write about in a journal. In a few months, I'll have forgotten about it. Maybe someday (in winter, obviously) I'll want to write about a trip to the park, and I'll have that nagging feeling that I've noted many nice things about park visits. The ant detail might really add something to the scene, along with many others I noted down over weeks. The problem is that, in a much larger set of journals, I don't know where all of those details are, and in the middle of winter I can't go sit down in a summer park to relive it. I'll have to go through all my notes searching for anything relevant.

Details like ants on the slide are difficult to just pull out of the ether and "make up." When I try, they don't ring true. It's frustrating to me that I have a load of notes from my life that could enrich my writing, and I just don't know how to access them without the time-consuming work of rereading everything. (Obviously this wouldn't be a problem if everything was digital because then I would have a search function...)

 

[Tallyfire]

There's a chapter ("Original Detail") in Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg that precisely describes what I'm meaning in case my explanation wasn't clear:

[...] use original detail in your writing. Life is so rich, if you can write down the real details of the way things were and are, you hardly need anything else. Even if you transplant the beveled windows, slow-rotating Rheingold sign, Wise potato chip rack, and tall red stools from the Aero Tavern that you drank in in New York into a bar in a story in another state and time, the story will have authenticity and groundedness. "Oh, no, that bar was on Long Island, I can't put it in New Jersey" —yes, you can. You don't have to be rigid about original detail. The imagination is capable of detail transplants, but using the details you actually know and have seen will give your writing believability and truthfulness. It creates a good solid foundation from which you can build.

My problem is that I wrote those original details down years ago... and now I don't know how to find them.

 

[JT Woody]

So my question is actually a different one: How do you add details into scenes when you're not on location?

Thi is where research comes in.
If its a real place, google street view is a good way to get the lay of the land. Pictures in encyclopedias or google image search.
Going tonthat place's website (many US cities, counties and small towns have websites geared toward visitors and people looking to move there)

If it is a made up place thats based on real places, same thing applies.

 

[Trish]

There's a chapter ("Original Detail") in Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg that precisely describes what I'm meaning in case my explanation wasn't clear:

My problem is that I wrote those original details down years ago... and now I don't know how to find them.

Again, I think you're taking things too literally. If you were writing about a child going down a slide the ant memory would probably pop up, and that would be great. On the other side of that unless you are writing a scene that involves a close up and personal view of a slide - not only is it unlikely to come up, but it would be weird if it did. Unless the slide is literally black with ants, the odds of you noticing it from the swings (or whatever your focus point is) is basically zero. It would be extra, forced, and pointless.

Think about the feel of the scene instead. If, say, it's night on a playground, and the scene is somber or desolate and your character is going to the swings they might notice spider webs between the swing chains, a metaphor for abandonment and a void of activity. If it's a happy scene, they might notice the moon reflected in a puddle that lies where footprints used to.

They don't have to be real details - only believable ones. In the example given - they could be details from a movie, a TV show, whatever. Bar stool color and a chip rack aren't going to label you or the place and no one is going to demand to know where you saw it. And even if they did "in my head" is a perfectly acceptable answer.

 

[JT Woody]

There's a chapter ("Original Detail") in Writing Down the Bones by Natalie Goldberg that precisely describes what I'm meaning in case my explanation wasn't clear:

My problem is that I wrote those original details down years ago... and now I don't know how to find them.

So, i spent a significant portion of my childhood in Sicily.
Whenni moved back tonthe US, i wanted to show people on a map, but i didnt remember my address.
I did remember the name of the town.
The next thing i remembered was a big cathedral that we often walked passed. Another thing was a hill. We'd meet the school bus at the top of the hill.
So... i went to google maps. Typed in the name of the town and punpointed every cathedral in the vicinity until i found the right cathedral. Then ibwent to google street view and walked along the street until I found my house.
Now i can point to my former home on a map!

My point: even if you cant remember specifics, you can recall enough to either find out the rest or fill in the pieces.

 

[Tallyfire]

(Sorry, this is in reply to JT Woody. I only just figured out that "Quote" is not "Reply"...)

Yes, this is a good tip, thanks! In the case of a hangar I'm sure I could find a 360° view of one somewhere. That handles the look of it, but I'd still be wondering about the smells and the sounds and the feel of the floor. But there are videos of these kinds of things online too.

I've also done what you've done on google maps before to find a location when I've only remembered a route! It's such a useful tool.

 

[Trish]

(Sorry, this is in reply to JT Woody. I only just figured out that "Quote" is not "Reply"...)

Yes, this is a good tip, thanks! In the case of a hangar I'm sure I could find a 360° view of one somewhere. That handles the look of it, but I'd still be wondering about the smells and the sounds and the feel of the floor. But there are videos of these kinds of things online too.

I've also done what you've done on google maps before to find a location when I've only remembered a route! It's such a useful tool.

After you highlight and tap +quote to the things you want to respond to - where you type to reply tap/click "insert quotes" and they'll pop up. Then you review them, delete accidentally added ones, and add the rest to your reply and then type under them.

 

[Tallyfire]

Again, I think you're taking things too literally. If you were writing about a child going down a slide the ant memory would probably pop up, and that would be great. On the other side of that unless you are writing a scene that involves a close up and personal view of a slide - not only is it unlikely to come up, but it would be weird if it did. Unless the slide is literally black with ants, the odds of you noticing it from the swings (or whatever your focus point is) is basically zero. It would be extra, forced, and pointless.

Think about the feel of the scene instead. If, say, it's night on a playground, and the scene is somber or desolate and your character is going to the swings they might notice spider webs between the swing chains, a metaphor for abandonment and a void of activity. If it's a happy scene, they might notice the moon reflected in a puddle that lies where footprints used to.

They don't have to be real details - only believable ones. In the example given - they could be details from a movie, a TV show, whatever. Bar stool color and a chip rack aren't going to label you or the place and no one is going to demand to know where you saw it. And even if they did "in my head" is a perfectly acceptable answer.

Yes, the ant detail would have to make sense in the scene, obviously, like in one of the examples the one you gave. It wouldn't make sense to add it to any old park scene. I don't want everything I write to be made with real details - almost all of it is made up. I just want some very special, surprising and realistic details to pepper the writing, because usually the most interesting and meaningful bits come from things I wrote down and would otherwise have forgotten.

I am genuinely curious to know your answer to my question, Trish: how do you add details into your scenes? Is every single detail pulled from your imagination, just like that? How do you deal with things you have a lot of experience in? Do you pick specific details you are very aware of from memory (and mix and match as needed) or make those up too? Maybe my problem really is just a weak memory and a weak imagination, and most people can pull these kinds of details from their memory alone. Without my notes, my writing is either bland or it feels wrong.

 

[Naja Noir]

I agree with Trish, in that I think you are taking the saying of "write what you know" too literally. While I can see how such advice would benefit some, it's clearly not the best advice for every aspiring writer as it seems to limit some of them.

It is not meant to be stifling though, and, depending on how you use it, can aid you. I personally use it to fuel emotions. For instance: say you're writing a story about a woman stuck in a space station alone. Isolation is finally getting to her. There might or might not be another lifeform that begins messing with her mind. Who knows? But, you (the writer) perhaps spent time locked in a closet, or confined in a small space at some point in your life. It scared you and you never forgot those feelings that arose in you. So you use them, those emotions, to drive your writing.
Most readers don't want that extra gobbledygook where every tiny detail is laid out bare, it's boring to read and write. There are obviously some things you might need to research, and you should where necessary, but not to the point of writing a technical manual. Oftentimes less is more.

Anyhow, as to how I deal with it in the sense that you asked: For me, writer's block is usually because I'm being lazy, feel uninspired, etc... It's never as simple as me not knowing what I'm writing. I write sci-fi, dystopian, fantasy, and I really have no clue what it's like to be one of mc's. But, occasionally, when I'm looking for the details, I close my eyes and let my feelings guide me. Then I open them and write what I saw. You got to figure out what works for you though.

If we only wrote about we know in a technical sense, there would be no future for the writer to ponder over at all.

 

[Naomasa298]

Yes, the ant detail would have to make sense in the scene, obviously, like in one of the examples the one you gave. It wouldn't make sense to add it to any old park scene. I don't want everything I write to be made with real details - almost all of it is made up. I just want some very special, surprising and realistic details to pepper the writing, because usually the most interesting and meaningful bits come from things I wrote down and would otherwise have forgotten.

I am genuinely curious to know your answer to my question, Trish: how do you add details into your scenes? Is every single detail pulled from your imagination, just like that? How do you deal with things you have a lot of experience in? Do you pick specific details you are very aware of from memory (and mix and match as needed) or make those up too? Maybe my problem really is just a weak memory and a weak imagination, and most people can pull these kinds of details from their memory alone. Without my notes, my writing is either bland or it feels wrong.

As John Lennon sang, imagine.

Imagine the kind of things that might appear in your scene. In a aircraft hanger, toolboxes, cables, pumps, pulleys, small vehicles, a lot of men (and women) walking around in hard hats. Google for a picture of an aircraft hangar.

Use what you find either as a stimulus for your own memory, or use it as a basis for your scene. Only include as much detail as you need to make the detail interesting, there is no reason to describe every nook and cranny.

And if all else fails - make it up. It only needs to sound *plausible*, assuming you're writing fiction - and if you're setting it in a sci-fi mining colony on another planet, you can put whatever details in you like. Since they don't exist in real life, and few of us have been in a mining gulag in Siberia, we probably wouldn't know how accurate it is anyway.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Short stories are my thing, a bit different but this may apply.
Sometimes it’s just write the story. You know it’s underwritten but details can occur when you’re driving or mowing the lawn or whatever. Sometimes you read the thing and the crucial details managed to evade inclusion. Having the structure allows additions when they occur.

 

[Trish]

I just want some very special, surprising and realistic details to pepper the writing, because usually the most interesting and meaningful bits come from things I wrote down and would otherwise have forgotten.

Here I would ask - are they surprising and special to other people who read it or just to you? I don't mean that rudely, but sometimes there are little details that you have an attachment to and others do not, so later when you're called out with a "why did the voice change?", "why is this here?" Or a "This seems weird" writers often get defensive because it makes sense to THEM. Often though, it simply doesn't serve the story no matter how clever it seems to us as the writer. You see it fairly often in critiques when someone gets extra defensive (most of us have done it I think - I know I have).

I am genuinely curious to know your answer to my question, Trish: how do you add details into your scenes? Is every single detail pulled from your imagination, just like that?

Every writer is different, so the way it works for me is not going to be how it works for most others. The majority of the time, a character or a premise or a scene will pop into my head, and then I discard it, pause it, or kind of push play. It's like a movie playing in my head. I can see it while I type. The characters, the scenery, hear the dialogue, their thoughts, etc. I know it sounds bizarre, feels it too. It's just the way it is. The downside is that when I try to plan, structure, or create outside of that kind of movie in my head I usually just stall. Like I have currently on a fantasy. I keep trying to be all intellectual and map out the magic system and stuff from this single scene I have paused in my head and it's not working at all. I know I have to give it up, push play, and go along for the ride, but I'm trying to do it the other way. Very unsuccessfully.

How do you deal with things you have a lot of experience in?

I don't really understand this question. Things I have a lot of experience in come easier I guess. The scenarios are second nature and I don't have to go "oh wait - is that a real word?" or anything because I already know. The majority of my experience comes in on the emotional side though.

Do you pick specific details you are very aware of from memory (and mix and match as needed) or make those up too?

When I'm writing autobiographical it's all actual memories. When I'm writing fiction - no - not that I'm aware of. Sometimes I'll go back on the edits and be like "oh heeeey.... I think maybe this was a partial flashback" but in the moment - no, I don't analyze things that way. I just write what I see/hear in my head.

Maybe my problem really is just a weak memory and a weak imagination, and most people can pull these kinds of details from their memory alone. Without my notes, my writing is either bland or it feels wrong

I haven't read anything you've written so I can't comment on whether you actually even have a problem, let alone what it might be if you do. From your post and comments though, I stand by my belief that you seem to be taking things too literally and, perhaps, trying too hard. I don't know that, but that's the impression I get. Just write it. Fix it in the edits. Post for critique, get new perspectives, edit again. It will get easier and easier as time goes on and you find your voice and your methods.

Are you saying it sounds bland or feels wrong to you? Or to other people? We are often our own worst critic and what our brains tell us can't always be trusted. Even if your brain is telling the truth - it's not hopeless. Just write it.

 

[PiP]

Example: I’m writing a scene in a massive airplane hangar. I’ve been in a hangar before, but I also really want to bring in the feel of the immense size of the place. I’ve been to caverns and the like, and cathedrals, and other massive indoor spaces… but I can’t remember where or when. How do you deal with this kind of thing? Is this a problem for you or is it just so far from your writing method as to be irrelevant?

To aid recall, I usually refer back to photographs or videos. If I don't have photos, I check YouTube, Pinterest, Google Images, and other similar sites.

 

[Tallyfire]

Ok, so by the sound of it this is a me problem I'm going to have to figure out for myself. I’ll just have to stick with memories I can easily recall I guess, and the rest is left to my imagination. Still, I am genuinely surprised at how almost no one here expressed interest in using details from daily life in their writing.

And if all else fails - make it up. It only needs to sound *plausible*, assuming you're writing fiction - and if you're setting it in a sci-fi mining colony on another planet, you can put whatever details in you like. Since they don't exist in real life, and few of us have been in a mining gulag in Siberia, we probably wouldn't know how accurate it is anyway.

Yes, accuracy is part of it for me, but mainly it’s the richness of writing that comes from experience (whether it’s your own or gathered from someone else). The most obvious example I know is Emily St John Mandel’s Sea of Tranquility. She has a scene mid-way through the book describing the character’s endless trek through hotels, how she’s gradually losing her mind, and this all leads up to a pivotal decision that directs the entire course of the book. Mandel took the scene from her own life and transplanted it directly into the book in a sci-fi setting (here’s the nonfiction piece that is almost identical). The scene itself is riveting in part because of the very concrete details (like photos of door numbers). Other scenes in the book describing moon colonies and airship terminals are fairly dry in comparison, but they serve the plot well enough.

What I understand from a lot of the responses is, “why would you want to use original details when you can use your imagination?” But what I keep thinking is, “why would I want to make up every last detail when reality is so rich with detail?” Taking an image/google streetview/videos is great when there’s no other option but I’d still rather be there myself.

Short stories are my thing, a bit different but this may apply.
Sometimes it’s just write the story. You know it’s underwritten but details can occur when you’re driving or mowing the lawn or whatever. Sometimes you read the thing and the crucial details managed to evade inclusion. Having the structure allows additions when they occur.

That’s what I do. Scene’s written, now I’m wishing I could remember details from times I’ve been in similar locations. I’ll also try just wait for them like you suggested. Maybe there’ll be more than I expect.

When I'm writing autobiographical it's all actual memories. When I'm writing fiction - no - not that I'm aware of. Sometimes I'll go back on the edits and be like "oh heeeey.... I think maybe this was a partial flashback" but in the moment - no, I don't analyze things that way. I just write what I see/hear in my head.

I haven't read anything you've written so I can't comment on whether you actually even have a problem, let alone what it might be if you do. From your post and comments though, I stand by my belief that you seem to be taking things too literally and, perhaps, trying too hard. I don't know that, but that's the impression I get. Just write it. Fix it in the edits. Post for critique, get new perspectives, edit again. It will get easier and easier as time goes on and you find your voice and your methods.

Thank you so much for this response! I’m super interested in how other people write and develop ideas (even though we’re all very different in the end). You’ve given me a lot to think about. It’s interesting you have a definite split between autobiographical writing and fiction. I don’t. I started writing creative nonfiction and then I was like, “damn, I wish I could tell this story taking place in a space station…” and then I figured, well why not? Which is part of how I got to this question. It’s not that I want to just write my memoir taking place in space, but I want my experiences to breathe life into my fiction as much as possible. I could certainly be trying too hard, yes

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Still, I am genuinely surprised at how almost no one here expressed interest in using details from daily life in their writing.

I do that all the time. I've used expressions my father (mostly, but also other people) used to say that make absolutely no sense without that context, but I try to give it resonance through generating a different context. It doesn't always work. Not just expressions, either, sometimes thoughts that occur during an experience or reflection on an experience. I too find it difficult when trying to force recollection, though, which is why things occur for inclusion when I'm doing something else that doesn't require a lot of attention. Like driving.

Sometimes I should pay more attention when driving but a close miss is still a miss.

What I find is I spend time thinking over a story, then go to write it. Sometimes, the thing that seemed the central aspect is missing on first read-over, sometimes something incidental. I've one story that I workshopped in the old .org that began life as a 3k short story. Over time, different situations/developments occurred to me and the version I posted in the workshop was almost 10k words. Some of that included things I witnessed or overheard or whatever. I knew the first iteration was scant in writerly detail, but also reckoned on being able to make additions over as long as I thought/think necessary.

 

[wearywanderer64]

1. If it's information, use wikipedia or something more factual.
2. If it's anecdotal, make it up without slandering anybody.
3. If it's fiction, do as you please and follow steps 1 and 2.

 

[Naomasa298]

Yes, accuracy is part of it for me, but mainly it’s the richness of writing that comes from experience (whether it’s your own or gathered from someone else). The most obvious example I know is Emily St John Mandel’s Sea of Tranquility. She has a scene mid-way through the book describing the character’s endless trek through hotels, how she’s gradually losing her mind, and this all leads up to a pivotal decision that directs the entire course of the book. Mandel took the scene from her own life and transplanted it directly into the book in a sci-fi setting (here’s the nonfiction piece that is almost identical). The scene itself is riveting in part because of the very concrete details (like photos of door numbers). Other scenes in the book describing moon colonies and airship terminals are fairly dry in comparison, but they serve the plot well enough.

What you're actually concerned with is making your writing immersive.

If I may say so, if that's the case, you're focusing on the wrong things. As writers, we don't just rely on memory, especially in fiction. We face that challenge when writing situations or places we've never been in before, and I imagine that every fiction writer has been there. What we have to do is use our memories and imaginations. Imagine the feelings of being there, and imagine the things you can see. Then describe *that*.

If I want to write an immersive description of a space casino, I'll imagine what it looks like (probably based on the casinos I've been in), and some space elements, like a gas giant out of the window or something and try to write that. I will add in any details I can think of that will make it seem more exotic and more sci-fi, and then only if it adds to the setting. For example, if I want to add some aliens in, I'll base that on, maybe, the cantina at Mos Eisley. I don't need to take my real experiences of being in a casino to make it immersive. If any such experiences come to me, and I think they'll add to the writing, I can put them in, but they're not necessary.

In general, develop your writing craft by often *not* writing based on your physical experiences. That way, you don't have to rely on it. Don't sweat the fact that you can't remember every detail. Readers aren't going to be interested in all of it anyway.