How do you “write what you know” when you have bad recall?

[Tallyfire]

What you're actually concerned with is making your writing immersive.

If I may say so, if that's the case, you're focusing on the wrong things. As writers, we don't just rely on memory, especially in fiction. We face that challenge when writing situations or places we've never been in before, and I imagine that every fiction writer has been there. What we have to do is use our memories and imaginations. Imagine the feelings of being there, and imagine the things you can see. Then describe *that*.

If I want to write an immersive description of a space casino, I'll imagine what it looks like (probably based on the casinos I've been in), and some space elements, like a gas giant out of the window or something and try to write that. I will add in any details I can think of that will make it seem more exotic and more sci-fi, and then only if it adds to the setting. For example, if I want to add some aliens in, I'll base that on, maybe, the cantina at Mos Eisley. I don't need to take my real experiences of being in a casino to make it immersive. If any such experiences come to me, and I think they'll add to the writing, I can put them in, but they're not necessary.

In general, develop your writing craft by often *not* writing based on your physical experiences. That way, you don't have to rely on it. Don't sweat the fact that you can't remember every detail. Readers aren't going to be interested in all of it anyway.

YES, that’s the word. I want to write immersive fiction. I think I must have expressed myself poorly in earlier posts though because I really don’t think every detail needs to be based in reality… the things I’m thinking of would just be the cherry on top of the imagination cake. I prefer fairly sparse writing.

It’s very interesting you suggest actively not writing from experience. I hadn’t ever thought of it from that angle, but it’s an approach I should try. (Obviously all the sci-fi and space-based concepts I come up with are not from experience, but I never approached it that way.) Is that something you learned from experience or did you pick that idea up somewhere? (= if you have books please recommend them. I’m in heavy study mode right now.)

 

[Naomasa298]

It’s very interesting you suggest actively not writing from experience. I hadn’t ever thought of it from that angle, but it’s an approach I should try. (Obviously all the sci-fi and space-based concepts I come up with are not from experience, but I never approached it that way.) Is that something you learned from experience or did you pick that idea up somewhere? (= if you have books please recommend them. I’m in heavy study mode right now.)

Don't get me wrong, you should use your own experiences, certainly in terms of emotions, people you know and for some details but don't rely on it and *only* write using them. Instead, practise writing about things you don't know or have never experienced. If you've never, for example, been in a desert, or a very dense forest, try looking at pictures of them and imagine yourself there, and write that as a scene. Your experience informs, it doesn't dictate.

Remember that you have five senses. Use them all. Describe sounds, smells, temperature, and if relevant, tastes. But learn to be restrained. Don't overwhelm readers. Put in *enough* detail but don't do it excessively. Help them to use their imaginations to fill in the blanks, don't spell it all out for them. And remember to keep it in the perspective that you're writing, so if you're writing first or close third, limit it to what the POV character experiences - and they won't experience everything.

 

[Sandor]

I think "write what you know" isn't strictly true. For me it's write what you care about, write what interests you, write what comes to your mind. I tend to write people that remind me of people I've met and talk like people I've met, but I also write people I've imagined.

I kind of see it like a stew pot - the broth is your mind and the overall idea, the base of your character. Are they a hero, a villain, a weirdo added for flavor or to add to the setting? The ingredients on the other hand are the details. The fresh ingredients are the things that come from your imagination, things you've researched, books you've read, movies you've watched, and so on. The leftovers, the things fermented, are bits and pieces from your life. While you can make a stew out of just fresh ingredients, you'll probably add in leftovers - they add a lot of flavor and are already in your fridge, so you don't have to go getting more.

My recall is terrible too, so I hope this helps. Overall, I wouldn't worry about writing what you know - it'll sneak in there because it's you writing it, not someone else.

 

[Tallyfire]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question! This has been such an interesting learning experience for me. I can go back to my writing with a changed eye, and I'm looking forward to it. This is all I could have hoped for when I joined this forum!

I kind of see it like a stew pot - the broth is your mind and the overall idea, the base of your character. Are they a hero, a villain, a weirdo added for flavor or to add to the setting? The ingredients on the other hand are the details. The fresh ingredients are the things that come from your imagination, things you've researched, books you've read, movies you've watched, and so on. The leftovers, the things fermented, are bits and pieces from your life. While you can make a stew out of just fresh ingredients, you'll probably add in leftovers - they add a lot of flavor and are already in your fridge, so you don't have to go getting more.

My recall is terrible too, so I hope this helps. Overall, I wouldn't worry about writing what you know - it'll sneak in there because it's you writing it, not someone else.

That's a really nice way to look at it. Thanks for that.

 

[Sandor]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question! This has been such an interesting learning experience for me. I can go back to my writing with a changed eye, and I'm looking forward to it. This is all I could have hoped for when I joined this forum!


That's a really nice way to look at it. Thanks for that.

You're very welcome!

 

[Catrin Lewis]

I’m terrible at recalling memories. I don’t think my memory is that bad, but if I get a prompt like “tell me about a time you doubted yourself,” I’m stumped. Obviously I’ve doubted myself many times, but recalling a specific memory to talk about it seems like a Herculean task. Most of the time I just can’t do it.

I’ve kept my form of journals for years, and I write about trips and so on, so I’m not lacking in material to “write what you know.” I just don’t know how to pick/find/remember the relevant memory I need for my fiction writing so I can go back in my journals to find the details that really make a scene come alive.

Example: I’m writing a scene in a massive airplane hangar. I’ve been in a hangar before, but I also really want to bring in the feel of the immense size of the place. I’ve been to caverns and the like, and cathedrals, and other massive indoor spaces… but I can’t remember where or when. How do you deal with this kind of thing? Is this a problem for you or is it just so far from your writing method as to be irrelevant?

I get that stymied feeling all the time when it comes to prompts, especially in workshops. For me, it's performance anxiety. Walking around by myself, I can recall all sorts of experiences, down to the slightest detail.

For your case, is it really lack of memory and imagination . . . or are you putting yourself under unneeded pressure? Does it help if you say to yourself, "What if?" and let the feel of it come?

 

[Catrin Lewis]

Ok, so by the sound of it this is a me problem I'm going to have to figure out for myself. I’ll just have to stick with memories I can easily recall I guess, and the rest is left to my imagination. Still, I am genuinely surprised at how almost no one here expressed interest in using details from daily life in their writing.

Oh, I use details from daily life all the time. The architecture office in my romantic suspense series is practically lifted table by table from the one I worked at in the 1980s. Feels like cheating sometimes, by why reinvent the wheel when it's there to hand?

Ditto the church where my protagonist couple get married.

On the other hand, the various European hotel rooms where they stay on their honeymoon are an amalgam of places where I lodged during my cut-rate European grand tour and of places I've seen online. I rarely refer back to my travel journals for details on them, if I described them there in the first place.

I suspect that if you thought back to being in that hangar, for example, there are things that will come to mind about it, even without your old notes or a photographic memory. Start there, and let the rest of it follow. You only need a sketch to set the scene in the reader's mind.

 

[Tallyfire]

For your case, is it really lack of memory and imagination . . . or are you putting yourself under unneeded pressure? Does it help if you say to yourself, "What if?" and let the feel of it come?

This is a good thought, but unfortunately it's pretty much the same problem whether I'm pressured into the question in an interview/exercise or if it's just something I wonder about in my own time. I've tried to just let ideas hang about in my mind for a few days, with some brainstorming and free writing and things like that... but I still don't feel like I get anywhere useful.

After letting my initial thoughts and all the input to this thread settle for a while, I've realised my memory is often fine at recalling details of places and interactions, but I find it veeeeery difficult to remember things (memories) from vague concepts like "time I doubted myself" or "time I felt free as a bird." I do quite fine at remembering if I have an external trigger or something specific to jog my memory. The trigger can be something I wrote down or it can be an image of a place, or it can be an object. Then it all comes back in what I'd call a good level of detail, at least for writing.

But digging out specific memories from general ideas still seems pretty impossible, and it's what I often want to do when writing. I'm not sure how to remedy that - or if I need to. For now I'm not worrying about it.

Oh, I use details from daily life all the time. The architecture office in my romantic suspense series is practically lifted table by table from the one I worked at in the 1980s. Feels like cheating sometimes, by why reinvent the wheel when it's there to hand?

Ditto the church where my protagonist couple get married.

On the other hand, the various European hotel rooms where they stay on their honeymoon are an amalgam of places where I lodged during my cut-rate European grand tour and of places I've seen online. I rarely refer back to my travel journals for details on them, if I described them there in the first place.

Hooray! I find the writing reads very differently when the writer has first-hand experience in what they're describing, and that's what I want to aim for (in some small degree, anyway, since I'm still mostly writing about exoplanets and space stations...).

What I've actually done in the meantime is move my notetaking mostly over to an app. I like taking notes when out and about and travelling but, until now, I always felt it had to be in a notebook. The problem is that I keep forgetting my notebook, and then I don't actually write anything down when that happens. So I've set up a shortcut on my phone (which I obviously never forget, ugh) to create a new note and I write down a few sentences and impressions. Every so often I go through the notes and tag them with things like "mountain" or "beach" or "anger," so if I have a beach scene in a story I have a few ideas to go off (if relevant) or at least something specific to jog my memory and put me back in that location or emotion. It's proving quite helpful for me so far.

 

[Sandor]

This is a good thought, but unfortunately it's pretty much the same problem whether I'm pressured into the question in an interview/exercise or if it's just something I wonder about in my own time. I've tried to just let ideas hang about in my mind for a few days, with some brainstorming and free writing and things like that... but I still don't feel like I get anywhere useful.

After letting my initial thoughts and all the input to this thread settle for a while, I've realised my memory is often fine at recalling details of places and interactions, but I find it veeeeery difficult to remember things (memories) from vague concepts like "time I doubted myself" or "time I felt free as a bird." I do quite fine at remembering if I have an external trigger or something specific to jog my memory. The trigger can be something I wrote down or it can be an image of a place, or it can be an object. Then it all comes back in what I'd call a good level of detail, at least for writing.

But digging out specific memories from general ideas still seems pretty impossible, and it's what I often want to do when writing. I'm not sure how to remedy that - or if I need to. For now I'm not worrying about it.


Hooray! I find the writing reads very differently when the writer has first-hand experience in what they're describing, and that's what I want to aim for (in some small degree, anyway, since I'm still mostly writing about exoplanets and space stations...).

What I've actually done in the meantime is move my notetaking mostly over to an app. I like taking notes when out and about and travelling but, until now, I always felt it had to be in a notebook. The problem is that I keep forgetting my notebook, and then I don't actually write anything down when that happens. So I've set up a shortcut on my phone (which I obviously never forget, ugh) to create a new note and I write down a few sentences and impressions. Every so often I go through the notes and tag them with things like "mountain" or "beach" or "anger," so if I have a beach scene in a story I have a few ideas to go off (if relevant) or at least something specific to jog my memory and put me back in that location or emotion. It's proving quite helpful for me so far.

The notetaking method is interesting. I tend to describe things in my head and such, and I usually use my notes for story ideas.

 

[Tallyfire]

The notetaking method is interesting. I tend to describe things in my head and such, and I usually use my notes for story ideas.

Well I would always keep travel journals, so this is kind of an extension of that when I’m not travelling. I’ll write about the way clouds change before a storm or a funny interaction I saw between two drivers. It keeps me writing and looking at things with fresh eyes even when I’m not writing stories, and now it’s building up to a useful reference log of memories.

 

[Altani]

Different brains are different. People don't always read to experience similar perspectives to their own. Sometimes, you want to get lost in another person's vision of the world.

Your vision, muddied though it may be, is still vision. If you really want to embrace photorealism or whatever, look up a picture of the thing you're describing, or something similar. But if you want the reader to experience the world through your eyes, maybe lean in to what it is you do notice about places. Is it a feeling? Do you find yourself thinking of how a place smells? About what emotions it makes you feel? Perhaps you feel the immensity of the airplane hanger even as that same immenseness overwhelms you to the point where you block it out. What is it that you notice about the world? What do you find important? And more importantly, what do you want to find important?

My advice is this: don't downplay or degrade your neurodiversity. Your perspective is valid. If you so choose, it could be infinitely interesting to give readers a taste of that.

 

[Naomasa298]

When did neurodiversity come into this? The OP is talking about recollection of details, not a skewed perspective.

 

[Luxuria]

When did neurodiversity come into this? The OP is talking about recollection of details, not a skewed perspective.

Agreed. Everyone views things differently. So, we're all neurodiverse. LOL.

 

[Altani]

Agreed. Everyone views things differently. So, we're all neurodiverse. LOL.

Fair enough, I didn’t mean anything by it, I wasn’t trying to armchair diagnose, I literally just meant it in the sense of a different way of thinking.

 

[Tallyfire]

Heh, yes. I wouldn't throw it under the umbrella of neurodiversity, but it does seems to be different.

Is it a feeling? Do you find yourself thinking of how a place smells? About what emotions it makes you feel?

Your questions got me thinking. I was reading a nonfiction book where the author described a period of her life as ups and downs and moving between emotions, and I thought, "I could not write this." It seems like something so basic, describing your general state of being over an important period of your life. If I try that, I feel a bit mentally blind, like I'm groping in the dark. I can certainly describe periods of my life, but it tends to be in scenes and vignettes, and the emotions come out through the scenes I describe. I wrote about Covid lockdowns once, and it was a collection of impressions. I know the advice is often, "show, don't tell," but I feel like, "I can't tell you what it was like, but I can certainly show you."

... which is one reason why access to my specific memories is important to my writing. Maybe it sounds silly, I don't know. I'm figuring this out as I go. Ramble ramble ramble.

 

[Altani]

Heh, yes. I wouldn't throw it under the umbrella of neurodiversity, but it does seems to be different.


Your questions got me thinking. I was reading a nonfiction book where the author described a period of her life as ups and downs and moving between emotions, and I thought, "I could not write this." It seems like something so basic, describing your general state of being over an important period of your life. If I try that, I feel a bit mentally blind, like I'm groping in the dark. I can certainly describe periods of my life, but it tends to be in scenes and vignettes, and the emotions come out through the scenes I describe. I wrote about Covid lockdowns once, and it was a collection of impressions. I know the advice is often, "show, don't tell," but I feel like, "I can't tell you what it was like, but I can certainly show you."

... which is one reason why access to my specific memories is important to my writing. Maybe it sounds silly, I don't know. I'm figuring this out as I go. Ramble ramble ramble.

See, and that kind of thing sounds super interesting to me! I would love to hear more. That kind of difference is really cool in writing.

I have something where if someone asks me what do you think of when you think of words, well, I literally think of the word. Like I think of the word cat when I think of a cat. The first time someone said that some people see an image of a cat I was baffled. That just seems so damn inefficient to me, rofl.

 

[Altani]

What you're actually concerned with is making your writing immersive.

If I may say so, if that's the case, you're focusing on the wrong things. As writers, we don't just rely on memory, especially in fiction. We face that challenge when writing situations or places we've never been in before, and I imagine that every fiction writer has been there. What we have to do is use our memories and imaginations. Imagine the feelings of being there, and imagine the things you can see. Then describe *that*.

If I want to write an immersive description of a space casino, I'll imagine what it looks like (probably based on the casinos I've been in), and some space elements, like a gas giant out of the window or something and try to write that. I will add in any details I can think of that will make it seem more exotic and more sci-fi, and then only if it adds to the setting. For example, if I want to add some aliens in, I'll base that on, maybe, the cantina at Mos Eisley. I don't need to take my real experiences of being in a casino to make it immersive. If any such experiences come to me, and I think they'll add to the writing, I can put them in, but they're not necessary.

In general, develop your writing craft by often *not* writing based on your physical experiences. That way, you don't have to rely on it. Don't sweat the fact that you can't remember every detail. Readers aren't going to be interested in all of it anyway.

That’s actually a really cool way to think about it. Memory is inherently reliable anyway. I’ve never thought of describing something based only on things other than memory and pictures, though I guess I’ve made up stuff for sci-fi settings and just never thought about it!

 

[Altani]

I do that all the time. I've used expressions my father (mostly, but also other people) used to say that make absolutely no sense without that context, but I try to give it resonance through generating a different context. It doesn't always work. Not just expressions, either, sometimes thoughts that occur during an experience or reflection on an experience. I too find it difficult when trying to force recollection, though, which is why things occur for inclusion when I'm doing something else that doesn't require a lot of attention. Like driving.

Sometimes I should pay more attention when driving but a close miss is still a miss.

What I find is I spend time thinking over a story, then go to write it. Sometimes, the thing that seemed the central aspect is missing on first read-over, sometimes something incidental. I've one story that I workshopped in the old .org that began life as a 3k short story. Over time, different situations/developments occurred to me and the version I posted in the workshop was almost 10k words. Some of that included things I witnessed or overheard or whatever. I knew the first iteration was scant in writerly detail, but also reckoned on being able to make additions over as long as I thought/think necessary.

Isn’t it interesting how drafts change over time? I started one short story where the aim was to put earth on trial, and that ended up being the most boring part of the story.

The thing I got hyperfixated on, the fact that aliens are almost always humanoid in fiction, and I wanted to do something different, led to a far more interesting story in the end. I ended up making flying sea slug aliens that controlled human-shaped husks.

Interestingly, that’s not the only time I’ve done something similar. My civilization for my novel in progress started off with like basically giant aliens with crab like shells, legs that can walk on land but disengage to swim in water, and that are the size of wooly mammoths. I still have humans in the story, they’re just there because the original aliens decided to breed them because they liked our fingers and thought they’d be good for engineering.

 

[Tallyfire]

I have something where if someone asks me what do you think of when you think of words, well, I literally think of the word. Like I think of the word cat when I think of a cat. The first time someone said that some people see an image of a cat I was baffled. That just seems so damn inefficient to me, rofl.

Do you have aphantasia? Or do you mean you just don't immediately see a cat when you hear the word "cat"? If I want to think specifically about the word "cat," I first have a mental image of a cat (it's unavoidable), then I have the properties of the word coming to mind in relation to the cat, like "short, sharp, abrupt" but also "rounded" and "self-contained."

I once attended a non-fiction class with a woman with aphantasia (which is an inability to visualise mental images). One piece she submitted described her birth experience. Her writing for that scene was something else, all sensory details and associations. I wish I could read it again but it's locked away in a digital classroom somewhere.

See, and that kind of thing sounds super interesting to me! I would love to hear more. That kind of difference is really cool in writing.

What I've learned from this post is that I don't log memories according to emotions, apparently. Even if I try to think of the last time my partner and I argued, I don't remember, but if I flip back through journals I'll eventually find it (even if I didn't write about it explicitly, because the details of the day are enough to jog the emotional part of my memory). I don't think that means too much for my writing - at least in terms of my methods - unless I want to describe something very specific.

Way on the other end of the memory recall spectrum, I once dated a guy with synesthesia. If I remember right, we discovered he had it when he asked me, "wait, numbers don't have colours for you?" We googled it and discovered synesthesia is often associated with an enhanced memory, sometimes in the form of a "film reel" of images and memories. I would name a date and he would just spool back through his mind and tell me what he/we did on that day. He was amazed I DIDN'T remember things that way, and I was amazed he could remember things from months ago when I couldn't even remember what we'd done last Tuesday.

 

[Altani]

Do you have aphantasia? Or do you mean you just don't immediately see a cat when you hear the word "cat"? If I want to think specifically about the word "cat," I first have a mental image of a cat (it's unavoidable), then I have the properties of the word coming to mind in relation to the cat, like "short, sharp, abrupt" but also "rounded" and "self-contained."

I mean that I literally picture the word "cat."

As for the aphantasia thing, I'm really not sure? It is hard for me to actually picture things, but I can sort of, kind of do it, especially when the subject has been photographed and I've looked at the photo enough times. I can't picture my dad's face without referencing a photographed version of him, though. For some reason, photographs are easier to remember, somehow? It's weird.

By far, it's not the weirdest quirk I have, though. I realized once when looking at a picture of myself when I was less than a year old, and being like, "Hey, I can remember what that outfit felt like," then going, "Wait. Is that normal?" Turns out it's not. I have always had the ability to remember everything I've ever touched, given the right stimulus (say, a photograph). I noticed once in my therapist's office that one of the reasons I have such trouble with new environments is that I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about what things physically feel like. Her office has so much stuff in it, and the first few sessions I was completely overwhelmed just thinking about all the stuff there was to touch.

I remember one day I was driving through town, and the shop signs that I thought were made of vinyl were actually made of cloth. Totally screwed me up mentally for some reason, lol. All these signs I had been thinking about as if they felt like vinyl were now cloth and my entire life was a lie, basically.

But yeah, my dad has tested me by asking me how certain outfits felt, and whether or not I was comfortable in them, and I can tell him perfectly each time how each outfit felt. It is extremely weird.

I once attended a non-fiction class with a woman with aphantasia (which is an inability to visualise mental images). One piece she submitted described her birth experience. Her writing for that scene was something else, all sensory details and associations. I wish I could read it again but it's locked away in a digital classroom somewhere.

I don't know how to quote properly on this website, maybe someone can teach me XD. My dad claims I described my birth experience at the age of four, describing what the wallpaper looked like and how the doctor spanked me and held me with paddles, shit like that. Like just a "remember that day I came out of mommy?"

I had a stepmom who screwed with my memory a lot, unfortunately. She was really abusive and one of the things she did was to argue with me about things that were objectively true (think the sky is blue, but something far more important, like, your sister hit your brother). Then she would send me to my room crying until I apologized and admitted she was right. I only know about this because I would sneak the phone and cry about it to my stepsister. One time that same stepsister said her mom had whipped her, and even showed me the marks. I had completely blocked out the memory until Cheyenne reminded me she had done it. Memory is a fickle, manipulative thing.

What I've learned from this post is that I don't log memories according to emotions, apparently. Even if I try to think of the last time my partner and I argued, I don't remember, but if I flip back through journals I'll eventually find it (even if I didn't write about it explicitly, because the details of the day are enough to jog the emotional part of my memory). I don't think that means too much for my writing - at least in terms of my methods - unless I want to describe something very specific.

That is so interesting. It's almost like emotional blind spots. That has to be much less stressful at times, I'd imagine.

Way on the other end of the memory recall spectrum, I once dated a guy with synesthesia. If I remember right, we discovered he had it when he asked me, "wait, numbers don't have colours for you?" We googled it and discovered synesthesia is often associated with an enhanced memory, sometimes in the form of a "film reel" of images and memories. I would name a date and he would just spool back through his mind and tell me what he/we did on that day. He was amazed I DIDN'T remember things that way, and I was amazed he could remember things from months ago when I couldn't even remember what we'd done last Tuesday.

Yeah, synesthesia is fascinating as hell. That's so cool. Brains are just really cool, fascinating objects!