On Terminology

[Also]

loneliness of the long distance writer

Ye'r clever, aren't ye?

 

[Also]

The reason why major key music sounds "happy"

I react to it as bright and straightforward. I generally prefer minor keys, which are more peaceful and relaxing, not all that often sad. Think muted, "Williamsburg" colors for minor, versus primaries for major.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Sooo...

It's ok to talk about the Muse or the Mysticism or the Magic so long as there's product at the end and the witer doesn't cite any of those things as implicated in their lack of success. It's the writers who cite these things within a complaint for their lack of success that causes such reprobation. It's the complaining that's at issue, really. Same as it would be if the writer argued they couldn't write because they're so busy with 8 hours of doomscrolling every day, or the computer is wonky, or the nib on their pen snapped.

That wasn't entirely clear from the discussion.

With respect to other pursuits/interests, I know there are aficianados of bull riding, wave riding, garden tending, and whatever else who speak of the spiritual enrichment of their chosen activity. Should we get them to shut up about it too?

 

[Naomasa298]

I have yet to hear of anyone extolling the spiritual enrichment of bull riding. Especially not bulls.

 

[Schism]

So, you want to write a story. What does this involve? Is it only “pump out a 100K” or is there more to it than that?

Hmm. I think it is a tendency for most perhaps to glorify their own approach, whether that be believing in "mystical bull" or elbow grease and sound logic. It's why I like to refer to MBTI as a loose example. Aside from "sitting in chair and banging on the keys until one reaches THE END" the entire process around that is up to the individual.

Additionally, it seems to be a way not to appear arrogant to emphasize the non-mystical side, and yet I find that kind of sentiment leaks out anyway if you talk to them enough about other stuff.

 

[Schism]

I have yet to hear of anyone extolling the spiritual enrichment of bull riding. Especially not bulls.

Well. I haven't finished reading The Sun Also Rises.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

I recall hearing a former Irish hooker speaking genuinely about the "art" of playing front row rugby. I don't necessarily agree that it's an art form, but not enough to castigate his opinion.

More people express their true selves through kicking a football than writing verse. Talk to anyone about the thing they feel passionate about and it quickly becomes a spiritual topic.

Including bull riders.

 

[Naomasa298]

a former Irish hooker

You might want to clarify that a bit for American readers.

 

[Naomasa298]

The biggest issue I have with attributing it to a "muse", or something mystical, or when someone says "the characters don't do what I tell them", is that it is abandoning authorial control of - and responsibility for - their own work. The moment you start thinking something else is responsible, then you stop thinking you can fix any problems with the work. You stop looking for solutions.

If a "muse" was responsible, or the characters were, you'd never write yourself into a dead-end, or have any issues with writers' block. The stories would spring, fully formed into your head. The only person responsible for any problems in the story is YOU, the author, and, unless you're prepared to give it up and hand the manuscript over to someone else, you're the one who's going to have to fix it.

 

[Rigor Mortis]

You might want to clarify that a bit for American readers.

I will, as soon as they clarify that bull riding should not be confused with sheep shagging.

I have an interview from Youtube going on as I write this, J.B. Mauney retired bull rider. Never heard of him until 5 minutes ago. He hasn't mentioned zen, but everything he's saying is pretty zen.

If a "muse" was responsible, or the characters were, you'd never write yourself into a dead-end, or have any issues with writers' block. The stories would spring, fully formed into your head. The only person responsible for any problems in the story is YOU, the author, and, unless you're prepared to give it up and hand the manuscript over to someone else, you're the one who's going to have to fix it.

I still argue the reference to a "muse" is trying to conceptualise a process that's hard to describe in conventional terms, something that occurs within the process that's as close to magic as makes no difference. The author still has agency but is trying to tap into something that doesn't fit the purely functional notion of "type the words."

 

[Louanne Learning]

What is being pooh-poohed here is the conceit that writers possess some spark of creative genius not possessed by less visionary mortals.

I don't think anyone has said this? It's certainly not what I implied. No, engaging in making art is not superhuman, but very human indeed.

All humans are storytellers. In the proper circumstances, maybe with some training and some encouragement, we are able to use the written word - symbols - and create coherent narrative arcs with breadth and meaning that may touch another human mind and heart. Wow.

Not mystical. Not magical. Though it sometimes feels as though it is. But all the capacities associated with storytelling are firmly grounded in our humanness. And that mystical, magical feeling becomes accessible when the creative impulse - which all have - is acted upon.

 

[Schism]

Appeals to carpentry and such regarding writing just seem like virtual signaling. There's no need to be black and white about things.

 

[JLT]

How high were they?

According to Coleridge he smoked a bunch of opium right before having the dream, so there's that.

And John Lennon said that "Across the Universe" was "a gift from Jah," so there's that, too. (And he was speaking of "Jah" in the Rastafarian sense, not the Hebrew one.)