Opinions on Fanfiction? Love, hate, tolerate?

[Naomasa298]

Heh. I reinterpreted the story of Perseus and Medusa as "Perseus has to do the same thing, but without any supernatural help - just gods that bug him all the time." =P I wouldn't call that fan-fiction.



Let's be clear: Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet is not original by any means. It is based on a long narrative poem by Arthur Brooke titled The Tragicall Historye of Romeus and Juliet, published in 1562, and and retold in prose in Palace of Pleasure by William Painter in 1567. Shakespeare expanded the stories, especially the parts of Mercutio and Paris.

Brooke's poem was itself a translation of Italian stories by Luigi da Porta and Matteo Bandello, and a French version by Boaistuau also influenced the narrative.

The original Italian versions, and potentially Brooke's, were influenced by the ancient Greek myth of Pyramus and Thisbe, as told by Ovid in his Metamorphoses, which also features a story of forbidden love and tragic deaths. (Pyramus and Thisbe are quite possibly the originals). There is also Ephesiaca by Xenophon of Ephesus, written in the 3rd century, which contains several similarities to the play, including the separation of the lovers, and a potion that induces a deathlike sleep. (See here for more: Romeo and Juliet (Sources) - Wikipedia).

Shakespeare very skillfully used poetic dramatic structure, including effects such as switching between comedy and tragedy to heighten tension, the expansion of minor characters, and numerous sub-plots to embellish the story). He certainly had plenty of dramatic skill. But to call Romeo and Juliet original is to ignore the debt he owes to the previous authors.

Anyway, all this mention of romantic duos reminds me of one of my favourite songs ...

I'm sorry I brought the damn thing up in the first place.

 

[ellekaldwin]

One thing that particularly gets me is when someone tries to write an anime fanfic, set in Japan but without really understanding the culture or setting and basing it entirely on what they've seen in anime or manga.

But the most egregious examples of fanfiction? The Dune books that were not written by Frank Herbert, but by his son and Kevin J. Anderson. Neither of them understand the setting, and have basically just turned it into some kind of Star Wars-esque setting. I don't care that Brian is Frank's son, it's still BAD fanfiction.

I think your opinions are totally valid! It's not for everyone and I know it can be a super divisive topic.

I'm not too familiar with the Dune books, but I did know his son finished it. What about his son finishing it makes it fanfiction? Did he do it against his father's wishes or something? Is it similar to what Brandon Sanderson did to the Wheel of Time? I haven't read those books, so I'm wholly unfamiliar with how they're written and what the original author's 'voice' sounded like, but I'm genuinely curious as to what your opinion is.

 

[ellekaldwin]

Also, on the plagiarism note: If a writer doesn't want fanfic written of their work, they should state it. But I swear it won't help sales. I don't read Anne Rice and several other authors, because they won't let readers do what they do. Also, fanfic is written for free and asking for money is a 'no-no'. This is just a bunch of adults swapping stories that might be on paper back in the old days. Are there pairings that would make your eyes burn? Yes. Are there also really good stories that make you cry? Yes. But anyway, overall, I think most fanfiction is good and trying to shut it down is working against your fans.

I agree that if the author says that they don't want fanworks made of their IP, I think people should respect it. Though that can lead to a whole "separate the art from the artist" type narrative. I think, as a whole, that fanfiction is a good outlet for people starting out writing (and yes I'm biased) but I do think that writers, if they want to actually become an author in the 'traditional' sense, they need to improve their craft and move away from the stereotypical fanifc style and lingo.

 

[ellekaldwin]

I agree with Luxuria. I didn't grow up with English (I didn't even start speaking English until I was in my early teens), so the first thing I wrote, at about age 18, was fanfiction. Aside from being fun, it was also a way for my to practice a language that was new to me. I'd read a lot of fiction up to that point, but never tried writing anything longer than a school essay.

Was it bad? Parts of it were, sure. They make me cringe now. But parts of it weren't. Some parts were wholesome, some were sad, some were funny. It was uneven. But it was an exercise in creative writing.

To me, the most important thing was that I was doing it for free. I respected the original author far too much to ask for money.

Has my writing grown since then? Absolutely. But would I have gotten this far without fanfiction? Absolutely not. Everything must have a beginning.

Hey, some of the best fanfics I've ever read were written by people whose first language isn't English. I'm glad it was good place for you to practice your English and writing skills!!

 

[ellekaldwin]

I wrote fanfiction (based off of non-literature media) and loved the community that was built around sharing that and fanart. Fanfiction tends to stay in certain circles. You don't come across it randomly. You have to seek it in certain archives or social media spaces. Most fans know the boundaries. So, I don't see the harm in it, if the fans aren't making money off of a work that's copyrighted. Also, there is plenty of published "fanfiction" out there. For example, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. Or ANY retelling of a Greek myth.

Exactly! I only discovered fanfiction because I sought it out, and from there I just integrated into the community. I've always been normal about it and respected boundaries and other people's opinions, but I know that fandoms - even the ones that are separate from the fanfic writers - can be a very toxic environment.

 

[ellekaldwin]

I don't stretch as far as love or hate, and while I don't read or write fanfiction anymore I certainly have to honor it.

It's not where I got my start in writing, but the first stories I considered actually good were Warhammer 40K fanfiction, and from about age 16 to 19 it was pretty much all I wrote. I never wrote fanfic for anything else, apart from a couple attempts at Warhammer Fantasy stories.

I had great fun with it back in the day. 40K was my big teenage obsession, I had a relatively solid grasp on the different factions, the tech and weapons they used, the political landscape, the galactic history and so on. That isn't to say I didn't take liberties and commit a few lore heresies, I certainly did. As a relative beginner I found it helpful to have that established framwork, but still enjoy the creative freedom offered by such a big and diverse setting with lots of blank spots. I didn't have to invent the minutia of the world, I could just dive right in and tell fun stories. I also read Warhammer fanfics by others in that same period.

My only dealings with fanfiction since then was those handful of times a good friend of mine wrote some highly, uuuuh, experimental mismash stuff. I served as editor and creative consultant on those projects.

Don't see myself writing fanfiction again, it no longer appeals to me, much more fulfilling to work within my own bespoke settings. But it was definitely an important stage in my journey!

If I should ever "make it" to the extent that people write fanfiction of my stuff, well, I suppose I'd be thrilled, but I would probably not read any of it—if only for fear that someone else out there does it better than me. I don't need to see that.

I think it's an important stage in a lot of author's journeys. When I was a teenager, I didn't write any but I certainly read a lot! And I think that just reading fanfic also led me to start writing when I was older. Some of the most impactful pieces of writing have been fanworks. I'm at a point in my life where I've read more impactful and technically impressive traditional novels than fanfics, but those first ones will always stick with me.

 

[ellekaldwin]

I love fanfiction and will scream so from the rooftops. Lately, I've done more fic writing than fic reading, but I adore both. Fanfiction is a wonderful thing. We get to explore characters we love, their dynamics, and the worlds they live in, all while trying to stay within the parameters set by canon. It's challenging but exciting and rewarding.

It's always disheartening to pop into a writing space and see fic writers try to downplay their interest in fanfiction because of the stigma. Yes, much fanfiction is of poor quality. Yes, fandom culture sucks. Yes, one is free to view it as plagiarism. But, no, writing fanfiction doesn't make someone any less of a writer than those who strictly write originals. This isn't a dig at anyone here; I've seen people elsewhere imply or outright say that's how they feel, and that's ridiculous. Fanfic takes just as much time and effort as originals. Maybe a little less intensive planning depending on the story, but planning a good writer does not make.

My first fiction works were fanfiction, too, long before I knew what fanfic was. They were not great! My first non-fanfic fiction works were also not great! Practice will build skill no matter what genre you write for. There's nothing shameful about writing fanfiction, even if you're past the beginning of your writing journey. Unless you're trying to make money off it. Don't do that.

Since others are discussing it, I'll add that I'd love to see people write fanfic for my works! People liking my work so much they dedicate their energy to write their own spins on it would be such an honor. But I most definitely wouldn't read them because I'd be annoyed to see mischaracterization, weird ships, etc.

I think we have similar opinions and mentalities about fanfiction. I love it, actively engage with it, and I'm not too ashamed to talk about it on forums like this and amongst other writers. I respect everyone's opinion, whether positive or negative, so I'm always willing to have open discussions about it. But yeah, I think we have similar perspectives <3

 

[Luxuria]

Aside from being fun, it was also a way for my to practice a language that was new to me.

Yeah! I was going to reply to this, then forgot. But I 100% agree. I translated some of my English fics into German and was able to find someone to proof-read then for me. It was great. I think it also helps you learn languages, on the writing side. I won't say reading, because you don't want to learn a new language wrong.

 

[Luxuria]

I do think that writers, if they want to actually become an author in the 'traditional' sense, they need to improve their craft and move away from the stereotypical fanifc style and lingo.

I agree original work needs to be more polished, but what do you mean by 'fanfic style and lingo?'. Like what do you believe needs to be improved? Both are written stories and I think I enjoy more fanfic work than real work sometimes. Because some stories are just... stale. Like, I can pick up a book, read the back cover and be like, 'yeah, this is how the story goes. Not interested.' Without reading the whole book. But fanfic is fun to me, because an author can do whatever the hell they want in the next chapter. It might tank, but if it doesn't, it's great. So, what 'improvements' might an fanfic author need that they can't learn from just improving as a writer?

 

[buttercream]

what do you mean by 'fanfic style and lingo?'

I think it's a reference to the tropes and clichés seen in fanfiction but not in originals. Fanfic has its own lexicon as a whole, not to mention fandom-specific vocab, that isn't really seen in the traditional world. Quirked brows. Teeth clacking and tongues battling for dominance in kisses (which I hate seeing, btw, fic authors pls stop this). Orbs. Plus the tropes, like sex pollen and the very specific fic version of ABO.

I don't think moving away from fanfic style for originals is a requirement, but it's best to keep audience in mind. Those who don't read fic may not understand something when it's phrased like a fanfic sentence. I guess it depends on how deep you are into using fanfic lingo? I don't really use in-text fanfic speak anyway, so I don't have much trouble, but someone who only knows fanfic should definitely be cautious.

 

[Luxuria]

Quirked brows. Teeth clacking and tongues battling for dominance in kisses (which I hate seeing, btw, fic authors pls stop this). Orbs. Plus the tropes, like sex pollen and the very specific fic version of ABO.

Okay, I get it. Ugh. All these... I can't even. I run from anything with 'orbs'. The good news is, more experience you have with writing, the less you use these weird things. I have never used any of these. Also, WTF is sex pollen? Humans aren't flowers.

 

[buttercream]

WTF is sex pollen?

It's where some outside force, like plant spores or a drug, gets at least one character in the mood and pushes the ship to have sex, based on the way pollen arouses insects.

Smut writers are a breed of their own.

 

[DLC]

I don't understand the magic systems and power up things in those, seem very video gamey, well some of them. Is that another genre? Stop making me feel old.

Also, all pollen is sex pollen, unless it contains Monsanto's terminator gene and blah.

 

[Naomasa298]

I think your opinions are totally valid! It's not for everyone and I know it can be a super divisive topic.

I'm not too familiar with the Dune books, but I did know his son finished it. What about his son finishing it makes it fanfiction? Did he do it against his father's wishes or something? Is it similar to what Brandon Sanderson did to the Wheel of Time? I haven't read those books, so I'm wholly unfamiliar with how they're written and what the original author's 'voice' sounded like, but I'm genuinely curious as to what your opinion is.

In the case of Dune, his son's books, written in collaboration with Anderson, were really, really badly done. They failed to understand the themes and the depth of the setting. Let me give you an example. In the original stories, the Butlerian Jihad against the "thinking machines" was mentioned a lot. It was implied to be a socio-cultural "crusade" against what was essentially AI. So think more about people pressuring, discriminating and ostracising others, sometimes violently, against using AI, a bit like a much stronger Luddite movement.

The continuation books basically turned it into a shooting war, humans vs robots. It was basically Terminator, with human resistance leaders, space battles, and none of the subtleties of Frank Herbert's universe.

I'm given to believe that Sanderson actually improved WoT by tying up the multiple loose ends and tightening the plotting, instead of just vomiting words on the page, but remained true to the original setting.

 

[Rath Darkblade]

It's where some outside force, like plant spores or a drug, gets at least one character in the mood and pushes the ship to have sex, based on the way pollen arouses insects.

Smut writers are a breed of their own.

Hmm. *shrug* Bad smut writers are bad smut writers; it doesn't matter if they write fan-fiction or "originals".

If you don't know how sex works ... mayyyyyyybe ... don't write it!!! Otherwise, you get horrifying images like battling tongues and anthropomorphic genitals.

And speaking of which ... may I present Jenna Moreci, who (as a romance and romantasy writer) can offer advice about what to do, and what to stay away from?

Check her out on YouTube. Jenna Moreci: WRITING ROMANCE . As well as romance stuff, she also has many other fun videos too (like worst tropes about male -- and female -- characters, creating a character profile, writing your first chapter (always important!), and so much more). I learned a lot from Jenna. Hopefully they help you too, or at least make you laugh!

 

[Naja Noir]

I'm not sure how I feel. On one hand, depending on why people are writing it, I think it could be stealing another's creations....something I am wholeheartedly against. But man oh man is it distressing when writer's don't do right by their characters. There have been a couple occasions, mostly TV shows, where it seems like writers suddenly forgot who their character was and they give said character, a lobotomy of convenience. I hate that. Bellamy from The 100? What the frack?

I haven't written it and put it out there, but in my head I've written him an entirely different ending because he deserved it.

But I don't seek out fan fiction for reading purposes nor have I actually written any. If people like it though and it's for writing purposes and not for resale of another's creations, then I guess I'm not that bothered by it.

 

[Trish]

Check her out on YouTube. Jenna Moreci: WRITING ROMANCE . As well as romance stuff, she also has many other fun videos too (like worst tropes about male -- and female -- characters, creating a character profile, writing your first chapter (always important!), and so much more). I learned a lot from Jenna. Hopefully they help you too, or at least make you laugh!

I just spent at least 2 hours watching video after video and laughing my ass off. Thank you for sharing!

 

[JT Woody]

Its been years since ive engaged with FanFiction. But i did read and write it in Middle School and HS.
Writing It helped me learn style, pacing, and character arc.
My FF was different then the trending ones which were self inserts or romantic ships of characters with no chemistry. I wanted mine to be a continuation of the last book which had an unsatisfying ending. To i took those characters on a last action packed adventure and set it up for a sequel.

Years later in college, i learned a variation of this. Getting a degree in art, i had to take painting and drawing classes. One way for us to learn technique and style was to pick a painter, study and analyze that paints work and reproduce a "Master Copy" of that painters work based on what we learned.

Thats how i viewed writing Fan Fiction, only, i didnt understand at the time whatbi was doing. Id already read the book series. I loved the authors work. I wanted to write copy the authors style and technique and learn from it. I wanted it to read like something that author would have written.
I did this also in college by continuing an Edgar Allen Poe poem for an assignment.


Thats why i think writing FF is important for growth.


I dont have an interest in writing it now because im already at a point where i dont need that kind of practice, but for beginning writers who are learning on their own... FF is a good tool

 

[Naomasa298]

I reckon there's a distinction between fanfiction, homage, pastiche, tribute works and sequels (and various other similar things).

Fanfiction could broadly be categorised as work that uses another author's setting and characters. But then, as we mentioned before, what would you call the later Dune books, Sanderson's WoT or the sequels to Asimov's work authorised by his estate? They use the original author's settings and characters, sometimes well, and sometimes incredibly badly.

As some of you will be aware, I write Vancian pastiche. I use his tone and style, but not his settings - but my settings are very, very similar to his, to the point where at least one of mine is his Dying Earth by another name, and my main character is deliberately written as an expy of his. But back in the 70s, Michael Shea wrote a direct sequel to Vance's Eyes of the Overworld. It wasn't authorised, but it wasn't opposed by Jack Vance himself - and Vance later reclaimed the character by publishing his own sequel. So what would you call that?

And an anthology of short stories using his Dying Earth setting was released, edited by George R. R. Martin, and written by a number of well known authors, some of which used Vance's own characters. These are, however, regarded as tribute works.

And then there are fanfictions that have become genres in their own right, like Lovecraftian horror, or Sherlock Holmes pastiches. I don't think you would call a Lovecraftian story set in Arkham-Innsmouth as "fanfiction".

So the line is pretty blurred, when you go deeper.

 

[Trish]

As someone who neither reads nor writes any kind of fanfic, or pastiche, or attempts to purposely emulate anyone ever (not meant in a derogatory way whatsoever), I personally would consider this:

to the point where at least one of mine is his Dying Earth by another name, and my main character is deliberately written as an expy of his.

Far more offensive than this.

And an anthology of short stories using his Dying Earth setting was released, edited by George R. R. Martin, and written by a number of well known authors, some of which used Vance's own characters. These are, however, regarded as tribute works.

The example of your work sounds like lifting/stealing someone's work. It's the changing of the names, when you admit they are, in fact, his work just renamed. It's like you're hiding it. It goes beyond simple imitation, to me.

GRRM and the others in the second example did not hide it based on what you've said here. That's acknowledgement, not hiding. To me, while theirs could be considered fanfic, I can also see it considered tribute. Your example sounds like simple theft. And again, I mean no disrespect and have read none of the things you've mentioned. I am responding only to what you have said and asked.

For clarity, the unauthorized sequel you mentioned that wasn't contested by Vance also wasn't hiding anything (based solely on what you've said, as again, I've never read any of it), so I would consider that fanfic or tribute.

I'm sure there are a lot of people writing fanfics/tributes/continuations to GRRM's work right now considering I'm not sure he's ever going to finish his own.