Optimistic Idealism. Dead? Boring?

[Stuart Dren]

Some older sci fi used to incorporate genuine utopias, or at least non-cynical views on tech and advances in ways of living. It seems that collectively we got wise to the fact that a traditional utopia (we wear robes and want for nothing) would have very little liberty or individualism, so we treat that with cynicism, which doesn't leave much left as for favourably viewing continental shifts in society.

I'm think of the likes of Heinlein, who first optimistically explored extreme collectivist themes (Stranger in a Strange Land) then a bit in the opposite direction with Starship Troopers.

Star Trek sort of has that, but it apparently has shady amoral government organisations and the utopia has committed war crimes too? I don't know the details. I've never watched any of the shows, but I guess some cynicism had to be in there too. Perhaps some veteran can correct me and say it's always actually been a dystopia.


Can you think of stories with genuine utopian settings, especially modern ones? Or perhaps you yourself have something cooking? It seems to go against the basics of storytelling, where convenience, unification, and abundance are simply missed opportunities for conflict. However, it also seems like an classic feature for some sci fi stories to have.

I'm hoping this can stay more about how authors today are or aren't representing their own versions of utopia, rather than what each of us personally thinks about concepts like socialism, libertarianism, sexual liberation or constriction, etc.

 

[Madman Starryteller]

Does a grey middle ground count? My own "topia" can be a perfectly calm palace world for those born right or who manage to make their way there. Or it could be a slum world of trash and hopelessness. It depends on where in my universe you are. It's basically a reflection of our own society.

The Spherium, the human civilisation in my universe, is pretty large, controlling many galaxies. I have ideas that it's built up of many autonomous societies and some of those might very well be utopian. Societies where citizens have their lives fulfilled by whatever desires and purposes they may develop during their long lifespans. Where resources are plentiful. Where food can be summoned to a plate as though through magic.

Of course, the balance must be paid, and so there are dystopias...

I think a realistic utopia, is one built on the suffering of someone else. Maybe my view has been corrupted, though. Maybe a full utopia is possible somewhere out there in the cosmos.

I agree that a utopia wouldn't exactly be a good setting for an action-packed adventure. It could work as a cosy study of an alien society and structure. Don't think a utopia would be possible for too long with humans and our emotions.

 

[Heartlet Happer]

I too would like to see sci-fi stories telling optimistic future. Star Trek as setting is best approximation of utopia, where all mundane economic struggles were finally solved.

To be more cynical, I'd refer to political material. A 100 years ago some thought that society is only 20000 manufactured tractors away from creating prosperity to end the history.

To be even more cynical. In my humble opinion the utopian setting should be a norm. The reason that stories usually include suffering, death, guilt and pain is that the earliest books were crafted for religious purposes and shock value.

And to stomp on the soap box even more. The existing societies are byproduct of poor storytelling, lack of writer's ambition and that unexplained fixation on darkness.

 

[Naomasa298]

Star Trek has slightly shifted its tone over the years. In the original, and for some of ST:TNG, it does depict a utopia. It starts down that path in The Drumhead, and that whole story arc, with Captain Picard still upholding the Federation's ideals. The later series really take that further.

These days, from the feedback that publishers put out, more people are looking for hopeful, if not necessarily utopic science fiction. Probably in response to how crappy the real world is turning out to be. Golden Age sci-fi (Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke) tended towards that.

Buck Rogers' post-apocalyptic city was actually called Utopia, even though conflict existed. I don't read much sci-fi these days, but there are a lot of depictions of flawed utopias, although I would struggle to name any off the top of my head. Like you said, a genuine utopia would have no conflict, so it wouldn't make for good storytelling.

 

[Stuart Dren]

100 years ago some thought that society is only 20000 manufactured tractors away from creating prosperity to end the history.

Good point. It makes me wonder just old the idea of a technically driven utopia is. There are myths of majestic cities e.g. Atlantis, or that one made of gold, but I've never put them in the same category as something out of Star Trek. Perhaps they serve similar idealistic purposes.

 

[Stuart Dren]

Don't think a utopia would be possible for too long with humans and our emotions.

Those are fighting words! I demand satifaction. We shall duel with ICBMs, at noon.

Does a grey middle ground count? My own "topia" can be a perfectly calm palace world for those born right or who manage to make their way there. Or it could be a slum world of trash and hopelessness. It depends on where in my universe you are. It's basically a reflection of our own society.

Of course, the balance must be paid, and so there are dystopias...

I think a realistic utopia, is one built on the suffering of someone else. Maybe my view has been corrupted, though. Maybe a full utopia is possible somewhere out there in the cosmos.

I don't know. It never occurred to me to consider whether a nation more on the imperialistic side could be considered a utopia. It certainly didn't come to mind in the traditional sense. I've always assumed a utopia's abundance comes at no cost.

I think Heinlein's super martians basically had magical powers, so they wouldn't be starting any banana wars or commissioning dangerous mining operations.

Yours certainly has an air of realism to it, though.

 

[Homer Potvin]

non-cynical views on tech and advances in ways of living

A different time with a very different cultural attitude toward technology. Not terribly different from the turn of the century when art, science, and industrialization were seen as uplifting the species until WWI put an emphatic end to that. Then there were periods of technological optimism, like the 50s or Internet inception years of the late 90s early 00s. Now, technology is literally rewriting our brain chemistry in some instances, or replacing it altogether with AI. That's pretty dystopian in my opinion, but having said that, it would probably make the optimistic Sci-Fi thing appealing again.