The Extreme Cosmology thread

So, gamma ray bursts, who are more powerful than supernovae, may be flying around the universe ruining people's days. What are people's thoughts on these destructive rays of death?

They can form via the destruction of massive stars who turn into black holes. They travel near the speed of light. They can last from seconds to minutes.

Would it be considered a Deus Ex Machinima if I have two ships in a story fighting, one being far superior to the other, yet having the smaller vessel win because a gamma ray burst comes by and destroys the super ship? :D
 
So, gamma ray bursts, who are more powerful than supernovae, may be flying around the universe ruining people's days. What are people's thoughts on these destructive rays of death?

They can form via the destruction of massive stars who turn into black holes. They travel near the speed of light. They can last from seconds to minutes.

Would it be considered a Deus Ex Machinima if I have two ships in a story fighting, one being far superior to the other, yet having the smaller vessel win because a gamma ray burst comes by and destroys the super ship? :D

It depends on whether you have FTL communications, sensors or travel.
 
So, gamma ray bursts, who are more powerful than supernovae, may be flying around the universe ruining people's days. What are people's thoughts on these destructive rays of death?

They can form via the destruction of massive stars who turn into black holes. They travel near the speed of light. They can last from seconds to minutes.

Would it be considered a Deus Ex Machinima if I have two ships in a story fighting, one being far superior to the other, yet having the smaller vessel win because a gamma ray burst comes by and destroys the super ship? :D
Meh, that would be lame. You'd be much better off making something up. It'd probably be unlikely to sneak up on a ship at any rate. They're extremely rare--like a few per galaxy every million years--and if we can detect them from 2 billion parsecs away on Earth today, it's hard to believe an advanced space faring civilization wouldn't be able to.
 
The thing is, if you were close enough to be taken by surprise by one, you'd likely be crippled by the supernova that created it in the first place. Otherwise, it'd have to come from somewhere you weren't monitoring in real time with FTL communications. The existence of FTL anything rather breaks the logic of being taken by surprise by pretty much any cosmic phenomena.

Also, stars massive enough to form neutron stars or black holes are usually massive enough to have polar jets even before core collapse, so you'd know *something* was going to be inbound in the case of core collapse - and if you're flying around smack in the middle of a relativistic jet in the first place, you deserve everything you're gonna get. It's about on the level of "Let's split up" in your average horror movie.
 
They're also localized in jets, which I'm sure are huge in diameter, but not the all encompassing spherical "shell" of energy that expands and loses steam to the inverse square law. You'd have to be standing right in from of it, cosmically speaking.

The existence of FTL anything rather breaks the logic of being taken by surprise by pretty much any cosmic phenomena.
And that's the wienie. If you have FTL capability, you can outrun anything. And if you have instantaneous communication, like Star Wars, Star Trek, and virtually every other sci-fi medium (but not all), it would be impossible to be surprised by anything. You'd have centuries of warning, if not millennia. I had a gag in one story where a some supernova chasers would observer the supernova, back up a few light hours, watch it again, back up a few more light hours, watch it again, etc. At one point, I had an idea for some kind of three dimensional spacetime calendar to account for how events transcended time depending on where you were standing. But then I was like, maybe, I should just write around all that shit and not bring it up before I totally embarrass myself.
 
Thankfully my handy-dandy Astronomy Today 9e text book doesn't leave my desk. Looking up GRBs, the two prevailing theories of formation are two neutron stars colliding, the "true end of a binary star system," and hypernovas, a very rare occurrence where a supernova partially fails. The core collapses into a black hole like normal, but the reciprocal pressure blast fails to eject the star's envelope, instead forming a massive accretion disk that would theoretically form a relativistic jet of matter moving at close to the speed of light. This jet of matter shoots through the remaining stellar envelope and gets the atoms orgasming across the entire EM spectrum, radiating particularly strong in the gamma range. It's a theoretical model but what isn't?

Another fun fact is that like the Cosmic Microwave Background, GRBs are detected in all directions of the sky, seemingly at random. And one of the tenets of basic cosmology is because our galaxy is 90% contained to the galactic disk of the Milky Way, a relatively narrow band of observable sky, anything that radiates equally in all directions emanates from other galaxies. In the case of GRBs, they've never seen one anywhere near our galaxy. 2 billion parsecs or so seems to be the closest, which suggests they're primordial and haven't happened in awhile. They think each galaxy might have one GRB every million years. That would make sense as the likelihood of two stars in a binary orbit both surviving long enough to reach neutron star status without one consuming the other beforehand seems damn near impossible.
 
Looking up GRBs, the two prevailing theories of formation are two neutron stars colliding, the "true end of a binary star system," and hypernovas, a very rare occurrence where a supernova partially fails. The core collapses into a black hole like normal, but the reciprocal pressure blast fails to eject the star's envelope, instead forming a massive accretion disk that would theoretically form a relativistic jet of matter moving at close to the speed of light. This jet of matter shoots through the remaining stellar envelope and gets the atoms orgasming across the entire EM spectrum, radiating particularly strong in the gamma range.

I think the way they form affects whether they are short or long GRBs. I don't the duration matters if you're close enough to get blasted into atoms by it though...
 
This is an interesting article about how a GRB may have been responsible for the Ordovician Extinction 450mil years ago:


Regarding @Madman Starryteller ship, though, I'm not sure a GRB would do anything to do it. It's not like it would melt the hull or anything. It's very bad radiation for organic cells for sure, but you'd have to think any interstellar spacecraft would need to be shielded for that anyway. I mean, terrestrial nuclear reactors and loaded with gamma rays that are easily shielded. I'm no scientist so I have no idea if a massive concentration in a particular direction would make a difference. I'm sure you wouldn't want to park you ship directly in the path, but it would seem to be easily avoidable.
 
This is an interesting article about how a GRB may have been responsible for the Ordovician Extinction 450mil years ago:


Regarding @Madman Starryteller ship, though, I'm not sure a GRB would do anything to do it. It's not like it would melt the hull or anything. It's very bad radiation for organic cells for sure, but you'd have to think any interstellar spacecraft would need to be shielded for that anyway. I mean, terrestrial nuclear reactors and loaded with gamma rays that are easily shielded. I'm no scientist so I have no idea if a massive concentration in a particular direction would make a difference. I'm sure you wouldn't want to park you ship directly in the path, but it would seem to be easily avoidable.

Me neither, but I have no idea what a photon hitting you at 1 TeV would actually do. There is going to be a stream of charged particles hitting you at potentially supraluminal speeds, so at least, you'll get a good sun tan out of it.
 
Very interesting, so gamma ray bursts don't seem as dangerous as one would think, at least against interstellar ships.
No clue, really. Just inferring. But it's not like the movies where a pink ray of gamma radiation shows up and vaporizes a ship. I know that much. I think the point of the whole thing is that it should be easy to avoid or protect against for any space faring civilization with half a brain. Don't get me wrong, you can totally write a scene where a pink ray of something blasts a ship in half at a critical narrative moment, but don't call it a GRB like you know what you're talking about. And by "you" I mean any of us.

It is a fact that short wave radiation, like Gamma (the shortest) doesn't pass through things easily. X-ray (second shortest) is similar, which you can easily see as it passes through soft tissue but not dense bone. Radio, the longest wave, passes through damn near anything, which is why your cellphone works through concrete walls up to a point (but not in a walk-in cooler whenever I'm trying to use an inventory or ordering app, which is hilarious every time I read something about the unstoppable magic of long wave radio).

The point is that we're protected from Gamma Rays on Earth today by basic lead shielding, not that I'm looking to rub my scrotum against a nuclear reactor wall or anything. The other distinction too is Gamma Rays are just radiation, like light, and are not physical matter. They can react chemically with things but not physically. But the GRB's, and a lot of other cosmological shit, are a byproduct of physical matter doing destructive things. So a GRB as observed from a distance might be harmless with adequate shielding, but getting closer to the jets of atoms moving close to the speed of light would be very, very bad.

Another side note there about black holes in fiction: the radiation, accretion, and other crazy shit happening around it would kill your ass long before you got "sucked" in. If anything, a approaching a black hole might be safer than approaching a star of the same mass, where the heat and radiation are infinitely hotter.

I wish I knew more about this stuff. It's one of those subjects that seems to go from basic/intuitive to incomprehensibly complex with no intermediate stage. There were exactly two astronomy courses at my university with no prerequisites. After that, graduate astrophysics that required several undergraduate degrees.
 
The point is that we're protected from Gamma Rays on Earth today by basic lead shielding, not that I'm looking to rub my scrotum against a nuclear reactor wall or anything. The other distinction too is Gamma Rays are just radiation, like light, and are not physical matter. They can react chemically with things but not physically. But the GRB's, and a lot of other cosmological shit, are a byproduct of physical matter doing destructive things. So a GRB as observed from a distance might be harmless with adequate shielding, but getting closer to the jets of atoms moving close to the speed of light would be very, very bad.

I think the idea is the total amount of radiation released is enormous. So if you actually sat there in a GRB without moving, over the space of a few minutes, your shields could be overwhelmed. The maximum luminosity of GRB 221009A was around 10^30 times that of the largest nuclear bomb we've ever detonated, at its peak. But I have no idea how would manifests. I did half as many astronomy courses at university as you (i.e. one), and that was the most basic one, at that.
 
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