The Philosophy Thread

[Schism]

enforcement

The sword of social shaming shines with an invisible flame.

 

[Louanne Learning]

Shame is an interesting word. Is its origin inside or outside of a person?

 

[Stuart Dren]

And it's interesting she is a woman. What is the significance of that?

I don't know. For some reason when I think of 'woman' as a symbol, wrath is the first thing that comes to mind. But wrath is generally contrary to civilized justice.

Purity?

 

[Stuart Dren]

The sword of social shaming shines with an invisible flame.

I wonder about that. Shame, to me, is toothless without exile, which isn't really a thing anymore.

 

[Louanne Learning]

For some reason when I think of 'woman' as a symbol, wrath is the first thing that comes to mind.

lol, well, this goes against the mother earth goddess archetype

 

[Stuart Dren]

lol, well, this goes against the mother earth goddess archetype

That's what I think of second.

 

[Trish]

I wonder about that. Shame, to me, is toothless without exile, which isn't really a thing anymore.

Is it though? Shame is far more dangerous when it's internalized than it is by outside forces. And there's plenty of that in existence.

 

[Louanne Learning]

They say the difference between guilt and shame is that with guilt, you feel bad about something you did (the behavior) and with shame you feel bad about who you are "I am bad."

I think guilt can be constructive, but shame is destructive. No room for improvement?

Shame is far more dangerous when it's internalized than it is by outside forces

Totally agree. it judges the person, not the behavior

 

[Trish]

lol, well, this goes against the mother earth goddess archetype

Does it? What about earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, etc.?

 

[Stuart Dren]

Is it though? Shame is far more dangerous when it's internalized than it is by outside forces. And there's plenty of that in existence.

I think of guilt more as the internally driven one, and shame as the external one. Some say the narcissists feel shame but not guilt.

They say the difference between guilt and shame is that with guilt, you feel bad about something you did (the behavior) and with shame you feel bad about who you are "I am bad."

This seems about right. However, if no one knows, and know one will ever know, will you still feel shame?

 

[Louanne Learning]

Does it? What about earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, etc.?

In mythology, the mother earth goddess is normally associated with fertility / motherhood / creation

gods of death and destruction are difference archetypes

 

[Louanne Learning]

Some say the narcissists feel shame but not guilt.

That's interesting. they say the primary motivator of narcissists is self-hatred

 

[Trish]

I think of guilt more as the internally driven one, and shame as the external one. Some say the narcissists feel shame but not guilt.

This seems about right. However, if no one knows, and know one will ever know, will you still feel shame?

To my knowledge, it is reversed. Guilt is generally thought to be the external one with social accountability. Shame is an intense internal feeling of the person themselves being flawed.

In mythology, the mother earth goddess is normally associated with fertility / motherhood / creation

gods of death and destruction are difference archetypes

I think if you research Gaia you'll find differently. "Force of nature" isn't just a colloquialism.

 

[Louanne Learning]

Gaia you'll find differently.

Interesting! I was thinking more along the lines of Celtic and American Indigenous mythology

 

[Trish]

American Indigenous mythology

Even in this case, she's often not seen as wrathful, but she is an entity of reciprocity. Take too much and she'll stop giving. Mistreat and she will correct you. A different way of saying it, but still not only good in all ways.

 

[Schism]

I wonder about that. Shame, to me, is toothless without exile, which isn't really a thing anymore.

I'm not so sure it is toothless without exile, though it can create the conditions for self-imposed exile.