Character The tomboy trope

[Stuart Dren]

Odd thought. The "tomboy trope" is that girls don't act like girls, doing little-girl things like playing with dolls or playing house or dreaming of beaux. They go out with the boys and do active things like climbing trees or doing sports and the like.

Was it Simone de Beauvoir that said that when women start wanting human things, they are accused of being masculine?

And what would be the word for a boy who played with dolls and such? Would he be a tom-girl? Or is there another word for it?

Yeah, he would be called a bundle of sticks.

The instinctive social pressure, which has thankfully lessened, seemed to be about trying to make sure the person would successfully find a mate.

Mothers tended to be the ones most concerned about their daughters being too masculine for a man to ever desire them. Meanwhile for boys, the pressure seems to more severely come from peers, who leverage the threat of exile from the group. The unspoken rationale behind "don't be a sissy" is "don't be a sissy because girls don't like that."

Goths (like, not the German ones, or well, some of them were probably German, but I mean in the neo sense) exiled themselves, signalled mostly through aesthetics. "You can't fire me. I already quit." Pretty brilliant.

 

[big soft moose]

At this point, based on your posts I know that your protagonist most likely is a blond haired, blue eyed girl with a pixie cut that everyone thinks is beautiful and she's oh so edgy doing martial arts and climbing trees.

Given that her name is Misako I’d tend to assume that she’s Japanese

 

[Trish]

Given that her name is Misako I’d tend to assume that she’s Japanese

There's a video game called River City Girls (my daughter's friend brought it here once which is the ONLY reason I know about it, admittedly) and there's a character named Misako in it. That character is portrayed as a "tomboy" and I assumed that's what she was referencing, though in hindsight I may be mistaken. The blond hair, blue eyes thing was from a profile post.

 

[big soft moose]

Mind you there’s another post where she refers to misako being a futuristic heroine with a mecha parked in her parking garage so who knows

 

[Naomasa298]

Misako is a name that sounds like you're about 70. It's a 1950s-60s name, kinda like Florence or Doris.

 

[Trish]

Misako is a name that sounds like you're about 70. It's a 1950s-60s name, kinda like Florence or Doris.

I guess that's one thing that isn't late 00's related at least.

 

[charlottegarbett]

My advice would be to forget about the tomboy trope and just write a character, given that she’s a cop we can take it as read that she’s a woman in a traditionally male field, that she is likely physically fit and able to handle herself in a fight.

All that gets a big so what?

I agree here - as someone who was considered a “tomboy” myself, all it actually meant was I didn’t fit the stereotype. There are much more interesting things about a character.

I’m interested to know how old the OP is - I wonder if age is a factor here.

At 30, I wouldn’t touch the trope personally, I found it quite harmful growing up “in the late 00s”.

 

[DLC]

It's one of those 'how long's a piece of string' questions.

 

[takadote26]

Can you actually post anything that doesn't include the phrase "in the late 00's"?

That IS because I was around since the late 00's (I was around when the tomboy trope was commonplace), that's why. Green hair was also much rarer in older media and anime back then, so even the main character had green hair back then. I was referring to the 'tomboy trope' in a historical context of late 00's btw.

 

[Naomasa298]

That IS because I was around since the late 00's (I was around when the tomboy trope was commonplace), that's why. Green hair was also much rarer in older media and anime back then.

So, you did nothing between the late 00's and now? Because you seem to have not realised that things have not changed at a fundamental level between now and then.

And you're still giving your character a name from 70 years ago.

Still, your story, you can do whatever you like.

 

[big soft moose]

It feels like we are conflating two things

the actual idea of girls being “ Tom boys” has been around for centuries

But I think the OP is talking about the trope especially in YA ( and associated genres like games) of the female main character being a Tom boy ie being exclusively interested in typically macho things to ‘explain’ why she’s tough. Lara Croft for example or Katnis Everdeen

That’ trope is less prominent now being replaced by one of characters who are feminine but still tough

As writers I’d tend to suggest avoiding both stereotypes and writing a rounded character ( which applies to any gender)

 

[JT Woody]

Mind you there’s another post where she refers to misako being a futuristic heroine with a mecha parked in her parking garage so who knows

Misako is a name that sounds like you're about 70. It's a 1950s-60s name, kinda like Florence or Doris.

So, you did nothing between the late 00's and now? Because you seem to have not realised that things have not changed at a fundamental level between now and then.

Maybe shes going for a version of "retro futurism".
I know i liked that concept since reading Ray Bradbury. All chrome, 1950s panic over the reprocussions WWII and nuclear warfare (retro names), robots and mutants and space travel, oh my! Two of my short stories takes place in this retro futuritic setting.

And with the OP wanting early 2000s info... one of my manuscripts takes place in 1998, so i was doing a lot of research and asking about that era from people who were teenagers back then, since i was 4-5 during that time and not living in America.
I think OPs questions are valid and is an era and topic they are intersted in at the moment (i know nothing of their WIP or vision). And if we cant provide insight, we can at least try to be less patronizing

 

[Homer Potvin]

Maybe shes going for a version of "retro futurism".
I know i liked that concept since reading Ray Bradbury. All chrome, 1950s panic over the reprocussions WWII and nuclear warfare (retro names), robots and mutants and space travel, oh my! Two of my short stories takes place in this retro futuritic setting.

That's the Fallout universe, damn near exact. It makes for a great visual. My wife has never played the games, but when we watched the show, it took her less than 30 seconds to be like, wait, it's like the 50s but it's futuristic? That's really cool.

 

[Naomasa298]

I think OPs questions are valid and is an era and topic they are intersted in at the moment (i know nothing of their WIP or vision). And if we cant provide insight, we can at least try to be less patronizing

Sure... a few times. Twenty times, maybe not. But more to the point, it's the framing of "they used to do this in the 00s but they don't any more. Almost all of the OPs questions come down to that, but they are all answerable with "they still do that". Tropes don't go away - they just change form slightly. That's kind of why they're tropes. A lot of them have been around since Homer (the poet, not the owner).

As I said, the OP can, of course, do what they want - it's their story. But you know... writing hasn't quite changed as fundamentally as that. We haven't shifted into a parallel universe in the last 20 years.

But, my apologies for getting frustrated over it. You're right about that.

 

[takadote26]

Okay then, let me try and rephrase the question somewhat: How do you write characters who don’t 'fit' into traditional femininity or gender norms in modern media (the sporty and athletic girls)?

 

[Trish]

Okay then, let me try and rephrase the question somewhat: How do you write characters who don’t 'fit' into traditional femininity or gender norms in modern media (the sporty and athletic girls)?

Personally, I approach characters simply as people (even when they aren't actually people). None of my characters could be described entirely as a trope, though they all do fit some tropes when it comes down to it. The key is that it isn't their entire characterization. You want to write an athletic girl? She's just a person who likes sports, and maybe she's super gifted on the piano, but she's also phenomenal at hockey. And maybe she's grossed out by pickles and beards. And her favorite movie is The Neverending Story, and she was traumatized when Artax died (we all were even if we call it cliche or basic). Maybe that's not it, and instead she's obsessed with horror movies. Maybe her grandma died when she was 7 and she's carrying some sadness over that, or her parents got divorced, or they have money trouble, or... really you could do this all day. The point is, she's not just a trope, she needs to be a fully formed, well-rounded character who also happens to fit the trope. You don't want to make a cardboard cutout whose entire personality is girl+sports.

For the record, I don't really believe there are "gender norms in modern media". That went out the window a few years ago, but even writing an era where they still exist - the above still applies.

*If this is incoherent, my apologies. I only got 4 hours of sleep and I'm 3 cups of coffee deep. I tried.*

 

[JT Woody]

Okay then, let me try and rephrase the question somewhat: How do you write characters who don’t 'fit' into traditional femininity or gender norms in modern media (the sporty and athletic girls)?

As a sporty athletic girl growing up, who has competed from 7th grade through college... i write them based off of my experiences and teammates. Which is to say, normal women.
There was nothing that set us apart from traditionally fem women.

• Going to the gym to work out: my first off campus job in college was working at a gym. One of the regulars was this woman who would workout in a face full of make up, a black body suit, and red high heels. Hair always done up. And she had big muscles!
• Makeup: just because we were athletes, didn't mean we didnt like getting dressed up! I we went to parties and got all dolled up on occasion
• Intimidation: a common misconception is that guys would be intimidated by sporty/athletic girls. NOPE! Guys would watch us work out (which was annoying and i hated it). Even now years after college, if im working out in the gym, a man will come up and says "smile, babe" and/or try to talk to me.
• Clothes: in college, i alternated between baggy clothes and my athletic legging because i had to workout/train between classes, and so i didnt want to put effort into getting dressed for class. No one looked at me differently from the girls who wore makeup and dresses to class. If anything, those girls would hang out with the athletic girls because the athletic girls were friends with the male athletes.
• Personality: we all have different personalities and nothing that screams "sporty". I was quieter compared to the other athletes. I preferred hanging out with the arts and theater majors. I preferred board game nights to going to parties, etc. Another girl on my team was the opposite. She loved getting dressed up and going to clubs and partying.
• Vanity: i wasnt in to makeup and nails done and fancy clothes, but i loved doing my hair in different fancy ways. Hair and jewelry were what made me feel feminine. I could wear sweatpants and flip flops, but as long as my hair looked nice and i had on a necklace or a bracelet or earrings, i felt pretty (because in elementary school, boys would call me ugly and tease me for "looking like a boy").

TLDR: there is no difference between sporty/athletic girl and fem girl.

Is there a specific question or scenario you are trying to work out? Because this question is way too broad, and it seems like you are looking for something.... more?

 

[JT Woody]

Spoiler: Sporty/girly

And then the day AFTER competing:

 

[Homer Potvin]

And maybe she's grossed out by pickles and beards

Literally or is that code?

 

[Luxuria]

Okay then, let me try and rephrase the question somewhat: How do you write characters who don’t 'fit' into traditional femininity or gender norms in modern media (the sporty and athletic girls)?

You just write them as women interested in sports. How would you write a man interested in sports? Do that, then just flip from He to Her in the text. Easy. If you want a good example of this, Toph from Avatar the Last Airbender was going to be a guy, then the writers decided to make her a girl and just switched the pronouns to female.