Today I learned...

[Trish]

Mark Twain said, "Education is what you must acquire without any interference from your schooling." By that, I think he meant that while facts and times-tables and such may be important, they mustn't distract from the fact that the true purpose of education is not simply to learn, but to learn how to learn. If it can't do that, it's fairly useless in most people's daily lives.

That and also - learning to separate influence from facts. It's shocking the way teachers push their own agendas in class settings now. It was bad when I was a kid, it's absolutely horrific now. Many (not all, of course) are not teaching, they are indoctrinating. To the point kids don't get to make choices about what they've read or learned. They aren't given space to make their own decisions about what those things mean. Even in areas that interpretation is a necessary skill and there are no right or wrong answers, they are being taught that there ARE right and wrong answers. The critical thinking is the most important part of schooling and that part has largely been deleted.

 

[Homer Potvin]

My corollary to all that--particularly to the students of the world--is don't be an idiot, a fool, or a sucker. If you think anything remotely connected to the macro operation of society--schools, churches, government, media, et al--every operates with your best interests at heart, you're a fucking idiot.

My corollary to that would be to recognize the difference between associated individuals and the institutions they represent. You can trust the former but never the latter.

And was critical thinking or logic ever taught in schools? I missed it and I'm almost 50. Maybe our septuagenarians can weigh in on that.

 

[Trish]

And was critical thinking or logic ever taught in schools? I missed it and I'm almost 50. Maybe our septuagenarians can weigh in on that.

It was for me, and I've still got a few years before I hit 50. Maybe I was just lucky, but when I pointed out the inconsistencies or gave an alternative view of characterization I didn't get points deducted or failed for wrong answers. I got graded on effort and (usually) pulled aside and told something along of the lines of "state mandated test will require X answer" so I wouldn't fail.

By comparison my son was failed on a paper for pointing out legitimate inconsistencies in the taught curriculum (with legitimate, verifiable, non-wiki bullshit) citations and my daughter nearly failed a class for showing an alternative political view to her teacher at the time and had to adjust her answers to the echo chamber her instructor required. In that case it was a political class where they were supposed to be "exploring" both sides and arguing for both, but that's not actually what the teacher wanted. She wanted "this side bad, this side good" and it needed to align with her very public (bumper stickers, t-shirts, posters) views if you wanted to pass.

 

[JLT]

And was critical thinking or logic ever taught in schools? I missed it and I'm almost 50. Maybe our septuagenarians can weigh in on that.

As a septuagenarian, I can attest that I took one course in my senior hear in high school (1965-1966). It was called "sociology" but was really a course in being presented information and analyzing it for merit. We took on subjects like racial bias, drug use, and moral issues and debated them. Miss Costello, the teacher, would just sit back and smile as we made our points, but seldom interrupted unless we were straying off topic. I loved that class.

Interestingly, I remember that one of my best friends wrote in a homework essay that he might take LSD if it were presented to him. I wrote that I would never take any drugs. Three years later, we met again, and I learned that he had not had any drug experiences, while I had been using pot and LSD quite a bit.

 

[Homer Potvin]

LSD

First time was great. Second time was... not. Never been a third.

It made a comeback awhile ago. 2018 - 19ish it seemed like everyone around the restaurants was getting back into it, but only the older people. Now the kids don't even drink. Craziness.