Today I learned...

If one loses an argument fair and square, then, sure. But to aim to lose an argument suggests throwing the debate. That's the question I was asking: what value lies in deliberately throwing most of the debates one enters? If that's not what you meant, then quoth the raven: nevermind.
 
Use questions, redirection, and agile position and you won't ever lose an argument. Or win, because the argument is truncated at the source.

But you won't gain much insight into the validity of the arguer's viewpoint.

I'm sorry to be so dim (blame it on migraine) but I'm still not following you. Challenge yourself entering arguments you will lose?
Or, rather, taking the chance that, by arguing a position, you might lose the argument. And losing that argument might make you question your own position on the matter, and gain insight into both your previous assumptions and the reasons your opponent may have come to a different conclusion, or from a previous experience, than you have. Either of those things enriches you and make you a more analytic person.

Whereas steering yourself into situations where everybody is obliged to agree with you, for whatever reasons, is not likely to put you at risk of evaluating your position.

For more insight into the idea of arguments, one can do no better than to view this debate on the subject:


(It was this sketch that sold my Dad on Monty Python.)
 
I'm sorry to be so dim (blame it on migraine) but I'm still not following you. Challenge yourself entering arguments you will lose?

Tbh, seems to be a writer's job to incorporate various perspectives. If you're conversing with others in a field, expert level, you will undoubtedly exceed your abilities but in the process and learn a thing or two. And if you're genuinely challenging yourself, this would happen more often than not. Some (or many) might be content resting on the laurels of the ego. But where does that get you in the end?
 
Tbh, seems to be a writer's job to incorporate various perspectives. If you're conversing with others in a field, expert level, you will undoubtedly exceed your abilities but in the process and learn a thing or two. And if you're genuinely challenging yourself, this would happen more often than not. Some (or many) might be content resting on the laurels of the ego. But where does that get you in the end?
Okay. Gotcha. You're talking about interviewing/consulting/listening to experts in order to expand one's horizons and not necessarily indulging in wars of words with folks.

Thanks.
 
But you won't gain much insight into the validity of the arguer's viewpoint.
That depends on what you hope to gain by arguing or participating in somebody's argument in the first place. I'm referring to real life, not academic arguing for the sake of arguing.
 
For more insight into the idea of arguments, one can do no better than to view this debate on the subject:


(It was this sketch that sold my Dad on Monty Python.)

... and like so many recordings of this, they didn't include the bit where he gets to the complaints department. Or when a tiger is unleashed on him.

"You want to complain?! Look at these shoes! I've been wearing them all day! And it's a nice day, and I'm sick and tired of this office!"
 
Maybe a writer should aim to lose more arguments than he wins.
So... if you lose the argument* discussion that has ensued from this, does that mean that you now believe that a writer should win more arguments than (s) wins?

Discussions, not arguments. My parents never, ever had an argument or a fight. They were always "discussions." Even when law enforcement had to get involved to help wind up the "discussion."
 
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