Today I learned...

[JLT]

Brooks is on record saying that Madeline Kahn was the most gifted comic actress that he'd ever met.

Madeline and Gilda (and John Belushi) left us too soon. I don't think NBC knew what a gold mine of talent they got when these folks were hired for the Not Ready For Prime Time Players on Saturday Night.

 

[Louanne Learning]

Today I learned that Plato probably bore the name of his father’s father, Aristocles, but his wrestling coach Ariston of Argos took to calling him ‘Plato’ on account of his broad shoulders.

 

[Iain Aschendale]

Today I learned that Plato probably bore the name of his father’s father, Aristocles, but his wrestling coach Ariston of Argos took to calling him ‘Plato’ on account of his broad shoulders.

Some time ago I learned that there are certain historians who think that the works of Homer (the ancient Greek, not our Mr. Potvin) were not written by the blind Greek poet Homer, but instead by another blind Greek poet...named Homer.

 

[Homer Potvin]

Some time ago I learned that there are certain historians who think that the works of Homer (the ancient Greek, not our Mr. Potvin) were not written by the blind Greek poet Homer, but instead by another blind Greek poet...named Homer.

This dirty white boy ain't blind yet, but things are definitely trending in the wrong direction...

 

[JLT]

Some time ago I learned that there are certain historians who think that the works of Homer (the ancient Greek, not our Mr. Potvin) were not written by the blind Greek poet Homer, but instead by another blind Greek poet...named Homer.

I've heard about that being said about Shakespeare.

 

[Rath Darkblade]

I've heard it said that Shakespeare's works were written by fellows called de Vere or Marlowe, or Bacon ... which stems out of a biased point of view, viz. Shakespeare's humble birth. The argument is that someone who didn't go to university couldn't write such beautiful poetry and plays, or know so much about "foreign" places.

What this viewpoint ignores is the fact that London in Shakespeare's time -- and for centuries before, and after -- was and is a major port, and Shakespeare would've heard stories of "foreign places" from sailors, merchants, and (eventually, when his star rose) courtiers. All this would've stirred his already-fertile imagination -- not to mention that some of his plays (especially the histories, and some of the tragedies -- e.g. Macbeth) centre on the British Isles, so he wouldn't have had to leave England to hear the original stories.

So sorry, Shakespeare authorship questioners, but your question is bollocks.

 

[JLT]

I've heard it said that Shakespeare's works were written by fellows called de Vere or Marlowe, or Bacon ... which stems out of a biased point of view, viz. Shakespeare's humble birth. The argument is that someone who didn't go to university couldn't write such beautiful poetry and plays, or know so much about "foreign" places.

One of those people who believed that was, ironically, Samuel Clemens, aka Mark Twain, who himself had a rudimentary education but went on to be America's foremost author of the nineteenth century (and, arguably, any century).

The debate is representative of what I call "kaleidoscopic history," where things seem to be one thing when viewed from one perspective but something else when seen from a slightly different perspective. Other examples are the Kennedy assassination, the World Trade Center catastrophe, and the Pearl Harbor controversy.* These things are fun for people to speculate on, but generate more than their share of conspiracy buffs. Sometimes all it takes is a few factoids and a tinfoil hat to join the game.

*For those that don't know that obscure part of World War II history, it concerns whether President Roosevelt knew of the impending Japanese attack on the naval base, but kept his mouth shut because he wanted to drag the US into the war. The debate rages on, with no end in sight.

 

[JLT]

Today I learned that "snuck" as a past tense verb for "sneak" is a recent (late 1800s) addition to the written word. Before that, "sneaked" had been universally accepted. I thought that "snuck" was standard, the way other irregular verbs were standard (swum, struck, took, slept, and so on). I look in my sixty-year-old Merriam-Webster (the two volume one) and "snuck" isn't even listed... it goes straight from "snub-nosed" to "snuff." The interweb informs me that "sneak" and "snuck" are now considered standard, with the two terms running neck and neck in American usage. Brits still prefer "sneaked" but I'm sticking with "snuck." I'm also sticking with "dove" instead of "dived" because it sounds more graceful to me, somehow.

 

[Rath Darkblade]

Today I learned that "snuck" as a past tense verb for "sneak" is a recent (late 1800s) addition to the written word. Before that, "sneaked" had been universally accepted. I thought that "snuck" was standard, the way other irregular verbs were standard (swum, struck, took, slept, and so on). I look in my sixty-year-old Merriam-Webster (the two volume one) and "snuck" isn't even listed... it goes straight from "snub-nosed" to "snuff." The interweb informs me that "sneak" and "snuck" are now considered standard, with the two terms running neck and neck in American usage. Brits still prefer "sneaked" but I'm sticking with "snuck."

The English language changes constantly. That's one of the permanent things about it.

I'm also sticking with "dove" instead of "dived" because it sounds more graceful to me, somehow.

Maybe because of the bird?

 

[CatrionaGrace]

I thought that "snuck" was standard,

Not according to my fourth grade teacher who put the fear of the language goddess in anyone who said, "Snuck." It occupied the same category as "ain't" and clearly marked the yokels among us.

 

[defaux]

swum

I thought it was swam (and swam, all over the dam) but maybe the nursery rhymes are lying to me.

 

[Also]

I thought it was swam (and swam, all over the dam) but maybe the nursery rhymes are lying to me.

swim - swam - swum is standard

 

[defaux]

swim - swam - swum is standard

Ha. Today, I learned...

 

[Also]

Not according to my fourth grade teacher who put the fear of the language goddess in anyone who said, "Snuck." It occupied the same category as "ain't" and clearly marked the yokels among us.

As usual, American Heritage, which occupies the role that used to be Webster's before the debacle of 1961, has a good Usage Note regarding sneaked / snuck on the page for sneak.

 

[Also]

My narrator MC is a decently well-read Presbyterian preacher's kid from the NC mountains, so along with his accent I unabashedly allow him to say "snuck a peek at."

 

[CatrionaGrace]

As usual, American Heritage, which occupies the role that used to be Webster's before the debacle of 1961, has a good Usage Note regarding sneaked / snuck on the page for sneak.

Thanks, Also. That was interesting. Which brings us to another word frowned upon by my late 4th grade teacher: In-tru-sting, said she, not inter-resting and not (heaven forfend) inneresting.

God bless Mrs. O'Gorman, who taught a bunch of Texas-talking refinery town kids to speak and write English.

 

[defaux]

Thanks, Also. That was interesting. Which brings us to another word frowned upon by my late 4th grade teacher: In-tru-sting, said she, not inter-resting and not (heaven forfend) inneresting.

God bless Mrs. O'Gorman, who taught a bunch of Texas-talking refinery town kids to speak and write English.

I once had a store assistant not understand me when I asked where the Bat-ter-ies are, as opposed to how he insisted they were pronounced, Bat-trees. I would have thought the extra vowel warranted that "Inter-resting" is more correct... am I wrong on both counts?

 

[Stuart Dren]

Today I learned that "snuck" as a past tense verb for "sneak" is a recent (late 1800s) addition to the written word. Before that, "sneaked" had been universally accepted. I thought that "snuck" was standard, the way other irregular verbs were standard (swum, struck, took, slept, and so on). I look in my sixty-year-old Merriam-Webster (the two volume one) and "snuck" isn't even listed... it goes straight from "snub-nosed" to "snuff." The interweb informs me that "sneak" and "snuck" are now considered standard, with the two terms running neck and neck in American usage. Brits still prefer "sneaked" but I'm sticking with "snuck." I'm also sticking with "dove" instead of "dived" because it sounds more graceful to me, somehow.

I prefer sneaked. It's even how I say it. But I have 50% brit blood. I could compromise, I suppose, with snucked.

Lighted also comes to mind, though not surgically topical to your point. I like how it sounds, but would probably stick with lit so I don't sound weird.

 

[Also]

I prefer sneaked. It's even how I say it. But I have 50% brit blood. I could compromise, I suppose, with snucked.

Lighted also comes to mind, though not surgically topical to your point. I like how it sounds, but would probably stick with lit so I don't sound weird.

I use "lit" most often as verb and participle, but I might use "lighted" (although "well-lit") to describe a walkway.

 

[CatrionaGrace]

I would have thought the extra vowel warranted that "Inter-resting" is more correct... am I wrong on both counts?

Seriously? It's ENGLISH. When did English speakers concern themselves with unpronounced letters littering their words?

I'm sure about interesting being pronounced with three syllables. As far as I know, "batteries" is also correctly pronounced with three syllables, though in this part of America, it's likely to sound more like badderies than batteries. The central consonants are an amalgamation of t and d.

Anyone care to argue about pronunciations of pen and pin? Surely Shirley has something to say about the matter.