Ancient Civilization

[Madman Starryteller]

In my main work, I have a civilisation that is around a billion years old, perhaps older. It exists in another universe from ours. It's spread out over thirty three galaxies.

I made it so old that it would be a competitor with geology and dinosaur timeframes. I wanted it so old that the reader would think that nothing could threaten this civilisation.

Some of my issues with this is containment, believability, and significant timestamps. I have a lot of significant events that could happen throughout the timeline, but it's still a tiny amount compared to the civilisation's age. I also have theories as to why expansion has run stagnant, but they may be inadequate. But most of all, I don't want the reader to slam my stories shut while saying: "Absurd!"
Even if I write space fantasy.

Technological progress in my universe ran stagnant hundreds of millions of years ago as well.

I tend to avoid the age and numbers in my smaller works, but will need to state them in the main books to tie things together.

What are some ways to ground these numbers for new readers?

How do I increase believability?

 

[Naomasa298]

The only problem I have when stories have *very* ancient empires like this is when they don't sound advanced enough.

A billion years is a *long* time. That's about twice as long as life has even existed on earth. It's about a 200,000 times longer than human civilisation has been around. The danger, for me, is when it sounds like "space empire, but bigger". A civilisation spread out over 33 galaxies is going to have such a high level of technological development, even if it stalled a few hundred million years ago, that the question becomes what *can't* it do, and why?

If it becomes something that a lesser civilisation can reverse engineer, or even understand, then that, to me, sounds unbelievable. If it looks anything even like our own, then that, too, lessens belief. You know, even if it can draw power from a black hole, I would ask "is that all?". If it has motivations that seem like ours, just more ambitious, I would think "They're *still* doing that?". Consider that a thousand years ago, humans were still sailing along coasts. 120 years ago, we took to the air. Less then 60 years ago, we travelled to the moon. 5 years ago, we couldn't carry out a natural-sounding conversation with our thinking machines. At a few tens of thousands of years, I'd expect something much closer to a technological singularity, when reality can be reshaped. It kind of depends how believable you want it to be.

 

[Stuart Dren]

Is it necessary that the civilization has been thriving the whole time? There could be several long dark ages to pad it out a bit. Rebellions, superstitions, diseases, lost-and-found tech or worlds. Especially if it's FLT/wormhole related tech that's lost, that would be a severe barrier.

Perhaps they were held back by their own creation: an advanced AI aggressively contained them for countless millennia. It's a bit tropish, but also reasonable. Perhaps they transcended the physical plane, then got bored and had to find out how to come back. Perhaps, with all needs met, they descended into gluttony and hedonism for so long that they physically devolved, losing most of their intelligence, and had to wait for circumstances and natural evolution to bring it back.

Have you read the Foundation series by Asimov? There might be some inspiration there regarding massive civilizations fighting entropy.

As for technology, I don't personally think rate of discovery necessarily has to match what we see in our current era. The span between the wheel and the iPhone could be microscopic compared to the span between the iPhone and something like practical, applicable wormhole travel. I don't think the unknown future can be reasonable compared to the known past in this case, nor do I believe there is an inevitability to most discoveries. Many readers will think otherwise, of course. I've heard people attempt to compare Moore's Law to space travel speed of all things (they were moon landing conspiracy theorists, though}.

If the billion years are broken down into digestible, distinct eras, all with complete, mutually accepted historical records... yeah it's going to feel cheap. If there's one single reason they stopped expanding, it might feel undercooked depending on what's there.

 

[Louanne Learning]

My thoughts go to the biology of this civilization. Is it inhabited by "life as we know it?" What are the life forms like? Are they the same in all 33 galaxies? Indeed, we might expect different life forms on each planet.

How has biological evolution proceeded during this one-billion year span?

 

[Madman Starryteller]

Thank you very much for your comments!

The only problem I have when stories have *very* ancient empires like this is when they don't sound advanced enough.

So in my universe, tech is basically like magic. But there are levels. The base civilisation has a lower technological advance than a shadowy elite ruling organisation, which keeps technology and bright minds to itself, for a good plot reason...

I still have flying cars instead of human teleportation, for example. But otherwise, they can interact with space in various ways and also black holes, even blow them up, yes the supermassive ones as well. One example of their tech advance is that there are three galaxies that will collide in a billion years, but they have built something around the galactic centers that can keep them in place, so they avoid collision.

And in the end... blade weapons are prevalent, due to defensive tech winning the current arms race.

TLDR: I try to keep most of the tech high, but there are some areas where the tech is very primitive.

Is it necessary that the civilization has been thriving the whole time?

You make a good point, and I have been thinking on that. But even if I include a ton of severe disasters, the timeframe would just soak them up. The issue is that as soon as there is a period, even a short one, of multi-galactic travel, people spread and my containment fails.
Some of my current theories as to their low expansion, are due to other civilisations boxing them in, and also strong home culture. The new frontiers lie beyond the other civilisations galaxies. So to reach a new unknown frontier you'd be have to travel some hundreds of galaxies.

Have you read the Foundation series by Asimov?

Not yet, but it's on my list.

As for technology, I don't personally think rate of discovery necessarily has to match what we see in our current era.

I agree. I'm basing all my hope on a point of stagnant technological progress theory.
My thoughts are also that there is this elite society that keeps technological advance to themselves and also is a sort of guardian against dangerous technology that could create new gods.

How has biological evolution proceeded during this one-billion year span?

I want to write about humans. So they will still be toilet-shitting us. With the difference that if you are a special kind of human, nano machines will take care of your excrement without anyone noticing, and basically teleport it from your bowels. But there will be people of all sorts of colours and makeups. I have humans of many different sorts. This also springs back to my earlier comments on technology, there is an elite human-centric organisation that wanted to preserve humanity as it was, and they may have been working in the shadows to keep us, us.

In most cases, planets are also artificially manipulated by climate and planet characteristic control towers, phew what a phrase! So, people basically are the same on many different worlds, with some exceptions of course.

These are only my own theories so far, though, nothing I've fully implemented in writing, yet.

 

[Naomasa298]

So in my universe, tech is basically like magic. But there are levels. The base civilisation has a lower technological advance than a shadowy elite ruling organisation, which keeps technology and bright minds to itself, for a good plot reason...

I still have flying cars instead of human teleportation, for example. But otherwise, they can interact with space in various ways and also black holes, even blow them up, yes the supermassive ones as well. One example of their tech advance is that there are three galaxies that will collide in a billion years, but they have built something around the galactic centers that can keep them in place, so they avoid collision.

And in the end... blade weapons are prevalent, due to defensive tech winning the current arms race.

TLDR: I try to keep most of the tech high, but there are some areas where the tech is very primitive.

Honestly? That sounds like a civilisation that is a few tens of thousands of years old, with a few exotic elements. I wouldn't worry about trying to make it "believable", because, when you start doing that, it exposes the other elements that are not believable. Leave it at the level of science fantasy, and it will work better. Don't give it "realistic" reasons, give it consistent ones instead.