Don't they know English?

[Naomasa298]

Or OJ Simpson an acquitted murderess??

Well now, if we are hyper-pedantic, and we assume that the acquittal means they didn't do it, no one can be an "acquitted murderer/murderess". The acquittal means they didn't do it, so they can't be a murderer/murderess of any kind. They have been acquitted of murder.

I'll take off my pedant hat now.

 

[Rath Darkblade]

Well now, if we are hyper-pedantic, and we assume that the acquittal means they didn't do it, no one can be an "acquitted murderer/murderess". The acquittal means they didn't do it, so they can't be a murderer/murderess of any kind. They have been acquitted of murder.

I'll take off my pedant hat now.

No need to apologise for being correct. That's like referring to a scientific theory as "just a theory".

But it is wrong to refer to OJ Simpson (or any man) as a "murderess", acquitted or otherwise. The word "murderess" means "a woman who has committed murder", according to Merriam-Webster and Collins Dictionary.

"Murderer" may be gender-neutral, but "murderess" is not. (Please don't blame me. I'm not making this up, you know!)

 

[Louanne Learning]

I wonder if it matters in what era your story is set? If it is an historical fiction, it might be appropriate to use old-fashioned language?

For example, scoundress for a female scoundrel?

 

[Rath Darkblade]

I don't know if it matters, really. Both Merriam-Webster and Collins say that "murderess" is correct, so ... *shrug*

I wonder why so many people think that "murderess" is outdated, but (say) "laundress" is not. After all, no-one talks about someone being a "launderer".

 

[Rigor Mortis]

I wonder why so many people think that "murderess" is outdated

Reasons have been outlined further upthread.

After all, no-one talks about someone being a "launderer"

Yes. They do. These days it might usually be money that's laundered, but it's still said. In fact, accusing someone of being a money laundress should be considered legitimate grounds for dismissal of charges if you ask me.

 

[Naomasa298]

I've heard of washerwomen, but never washermen.

Stewardess is completely outdated, btw. They're flight attendants.

 

[big soft moose]

According to Mr Google

"The suffix "-ess" in English is a borrowing from French, ultimately originating from the Greek "-ισσα (-issa)". It's used to form feminine nouns from masculine counterparts, such as "waiter" becoming "waitress". Historically, it's been used to denote female individuals or animals, but its usage is now considered old-fashioned in many cases, with gender-neutral terms preferred."

the only ones i can think off that arent dated these days are in animals like lioness

 

[big soft moose]

Apparently, they're now all homiciders.

strictly its not a synonym - murder comes from moerdr, the state of secret and unlawful killing , where as homicide is technically any killing of a human

 

[Rath Darkblade]

According to Mr Google

"The suffix "-ess" in English is a borrowing from French, ultimately originating from the Greek "-ισσα (-issa)". It's used to form feminine nouns from masculine counterparts, such as "waiter" becoming "waitress". Historically, it's been used to denote female individuals or animals, but its usage is now considered old-fashioned in many cases, with gender-neutral terms preferred."

the only ones i can think off that arent dated these days are in animals like lioness

I've heard of it being applied to other animals too, like "tigress". (But strangely, other than lions and tigers, I can't think of any other animal where this applies. Wolfess? Horsess? Bear-ess? No).

Sorry to bring all this up, but English is my second language, so I sometimes wonder about such things. If the -ess usage is considered old-fashioned, then why is the male form (murderer etc.) acceptable? *shrug*

 

[big soft moose]

Because its not a male form... the core word is unisex, its made feminine only by adding the suffix ess

 

[Madman Starryteller]

So the feminine suffix is considered old-fashioned. Fits my usages perfectly as I am becoming old-fashioned.

 

[Naomasa298]

Many animals have a specific term for their male and females. In the case of tigers and lions, they just happen to be tigress and lioness. In some cases, as with tigers and lions, the male is the animal name.

A male dog is a dog, a female is a bitch.
But a male pig is a boar, a female pig is a sow.
A male chicken is a cock, a female a hen. This is also true for peacocks, which are male, peahens are the females.
An unneutered male cat is a tom, a female cat is a queen.
Doe, a deer, a female deer.

 

[JLT]

I've never heard that word used before either.

In 19th century mystery novels, perhaps.

 

[Rath Darkblade]

I've never heard that word used before either.

In 19th century mystery novels, perhaps.

Perhaps, but I've also seen it in Agatha Christie novels. It appears in

Spoiler

"Dumb Witness"

, for instance, as well as

Spoiler

"After the Funeral.

(I'm censoring the books' names for the benefit of those who haven't read either book yet. Go read Poirot books today).

 

[Night Herald]

In this thread we lament the downfall of communication by observing and highlighting misused English by established sources (such as movies, news, etc).

I will begin. I saw the IMDB page of Star Trek: Section 31, where they label the woman Philippa Georgiou as an "emperor" instead of empress. I'm not a perfect English user myself by any means, but even I knew that one!

What heresy have you seen lately?

I can't bring to mind any recent heresy, but I know I see it every day.

Like, most of my close friends are Norwegian, bless them. But they wreak such havoc upon the English language... and Norwegian, too!

Most of my friends aren't what you'd call intellectuals. They are slapdash as fuck when it comes to language. Do I love them any less? Of course not. But it does grind on me when people won't fucking use fuckin words correctly. I went to all this trouble learning English, and now I see the disrespect even native speakers heap on it. It ain't right, man, it just ain't right!

 

[Rath Darkblade]

Now I wonder if any Swedish people call this guy "The Norwegian Chef" ...

 

[Night Herald]

Now I wonder if any Swedish people call this guy "The Norwegian Chef" ...

Shit, I'm Norwegian and I claim him. He doesn't even slightly sound Swedish, anyway. Not in this clip. He'd specifically be Trønder, on account of the mustache. For those not in the know, a Trønder is a subcategory of Norwegian. They're the ones the rest of us poke fun at, and whom we secretly adore.