Is AI writing assistance ethical?

What precisely is the difference between using a human editor and an AI editor? (Quality semantics notwithstanding.)
By the parameters of this discussion: nothing. Maybe that's the crux of the debate. Not the human writer vs the genitive AI writer, but the human editor vs the AI auxiliary editor. Having watched this debate over the last few years, and assuming we can stop clutching our pearls about machines imitating humans, that would seem to be the real question.
 
Last edited:
To be great, truly great, you have to be the kind of person who makes the others around you great.

That's something Mark Twain said. You know, the fella we quote for every birth, death or marriage. The sharp wit who has said something that's applicable whether you stub your toe or run for office.

I typed that into a word document recently and the whateveryoucallit suggested a rewrite. Use more concise language. The AI has the temerity to suggest editorial changes for one of the most everlasting voices of wisdom and wit and intellectual slam down, Use "must" instead.

We should let that thing go nuts on Huckleberry Finn.

AI is trying to murder Mark Twain.

Ethics, to my mind, come in when there's deceit or lack of transparency in usage. My reasons for not using AI in writing aren't connected to an ethics dilemma, more that the steering, however lightly applied, robs the writing of its individuality, which is what brought us to it in the first place. Others view that differently and say they can impose their own vision regardless of using some features of AI. I don't think I can and would prefer to be known by my imperfections.
 
Digging deeper into the ethics part, how many of you, like me, have downloaded or streamed books, films and songs for free? This is where hypocrisy can come into it i.e. we condemn one thing in which our creativity is involved, but not others where it is not. And also (because I'm on a roll after so much coffee) is DJ music i.e. the ones that mix songs and tunes and stuff also a type of AI as it is artificially created. (phew!) I'd better have a lie down now.
 
I typed that into a word document recently and the whateveryoucallit suggested a rewrite. Use more concise language. The AI has the temerity to suggest editorial changes for one of the most everlasting voices of wisdom and wit and intellectual slam down, Use "must" instead.

The AI doesn't have the temerity to do anything. It's simply doing what it's being told to do. It doesn't make a judgement on the value of that sentence, because it hasn't been told to. If anyone is to blame for that, it is Microsoft. But this is why generative AI shouldn't be used to actually do any writing, or to make word choices. You can also turn that particular check off in Word.

But, you know, the debate of ethics has been around long before AI. Is it ethical to put your name on a ghost-written "autobiography"?
 
DJ music i.e. the ones that mix songs and tunes and stuff also a type of AI as it is artificially created.

It isn't AI. There are two words in AI, and the second one is "intelligence". Where is the "intelligence" in that process, if a human is choosing what, and how to remix the music? If you only focus on the word "artificial", then almost everything, including most of the food you eat, the house you live in, the cup you drink from, to a hole someone dug in the ground is "AI", because it wasn't created "naturally".
 
It isn't AI. There are two words in AI, and the second one is "intelligence". Where is the "intelligence" in that process, if a human is choosing what, and how to remix the music? If you only focus on the word "artificial", then almost everything, including most of the food you eat, the house you live in, the cup you drink from, to a hole someone dug in the ground is "AI", because it wasn't created "naturally".
But how it is produced uses all sorts of AI to improve it. And I think the definition of AI is a very grey area.
 
And I think the definition of AI is a very grey area.
That's because it's a catchall marketing term, like "digital" was 25 years ago. My new clothes dryer is powered by AI that can tell when my closes are dry. The one I had before it was a digital dryer that could tell when my clothes were dry. The one before that predated tech marketing (but not domestic marketing) and was just a clothes dryer. It also could tell when my clothes were dry.

And also (because I'm on a roll after so much coffee) is DJ music i.e. the ones that mix songs and tunes and stuff also a type of AI as it is artificially created.
Was Pro-tools considered AI twenty years ago when it did the same thing?

It's all a bunch of marketing nonsense. Don't fall for it.
 
And I think the definition of AI is a very grey area.
It's not, actually. In this thread, and almost always, when we are discussing AI in writing, we refer to generative AI, specifically Large Language Models, and even then, specifically when it is used to write prose. Far fewer people have an objection to using it for research.

The grey area is really where it's used for critique or editing.

I mean, who cares if you use an AI coffee machine to brew your double soy latte with extra non-dairy cream to keep you going while you write?
 
I think we're getting close to the crux of the argument here.

By the parameters of this discussion: nothing. Maybe that's the crux of the debate. Not the human writer vs the genitive AI writer, but the human editor vs the AI auxiliary editor.

Yes. It's the difference between "AI Bot, write me a story about a cat and a grasshopper that live in Chicago in the Roaring Twenties" and AI Bot, here is a story about a cat and a grasshopper that live in Chicago in the Roaring Twenties. Please look it over for glaring defects in phrasing and for possible anachronisms."

If we're talking about using AI within the context of this forum, the rules are probably much different from those of the world at large. We expect that what we get from our fellow writers is the unalloyed product of their labor. When we enter a contest here, we expect the same. The training wheels are off. So using AI in this context would be unethical, in that we are not living up to the expectations of the other people on the forum.

But if you took something you've written, even when it's first posted on the forum, and then processed it through AI and released it into the wild, the the ethics are much blurrier. I might submit such a piece to my local paper, but would hesitate to send it to the New Yorker.

To be great, truly great, you have to be the kind of person who makes the others around you great.

(snip)
I typed that into a word document recently and the whateveryoucallit suggested a rewrite. Use more concise language. The AI has the temerity to suggest editorial changes for one of the most everlasting voices of wisdom and wit and intellectual slam down, Use "must" instead.
The AI substitutes "must" for "have to be" because its algorithm has been adjusted to do it. It presumes that regional variations and colloquialisms have no place in its purified output. Mark Twain knew better. He had the choice between "must" and "have to be" and chose the latter because the first one is commonly more used by a superior dictating something to an inferior, whereas the latter is more commonly used between equals.

Similarly, E. B. White pointed out in The Elements of Style that Mr. Lincoln was flirting with disaster when he used the phrase "four score and seven years ago" rather than the more concise "eighty-seven years ago" but he went with cadence rather than economy. When AI has the ability to discern between the two, and choose cadence, then we'll have a real problem with AI quality.

It bears repeating what Twain said in his foreword to Huckleberrry Finn:

In this book a number of dialects are used, to wit: the Missouri negro dialect; the extremest form of the backwoods Southwestern dialect; the ordinary “Pike County” dialect; and four modified varieties of this last. The shadings have not been done in a haphazard fashion, or by guesswork; but painstakingly, and with the trustworthy guidance and support of personal familiarity with these several forms of speech.

I make this explanation for the reason that without it many readers would suppose that all these characters were trying to talk alike and not succeeding.

I can see AI obliterating these nuances of dialect, resulting in the deletion of a major theme of the book.

In sum, bear in mind what Twain said: "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is the difference between the lightning and the lightning bug." We can tell the difference when we see it. But can AI do the same?
 
Last edited:
I would be curious to see a general opinion of the publishing attribution percentages. As in, for books that get published with a line like "This work was written 1.5% by AI."
This strikes me as a pragmatic approach. I like that it aids transparency and may help to build trust with an audience.
 
This strikes me as a pragmatic approach. I like that it aids transparency and may help to build trust with an audience.
That chain goes all the way back to the submission level where agents and editors are already using AI to vet manuscripts. I'd like them to disclaim that as well. It's amazing how quiet the righteous indignation from the publishing sector quieted down when an opportunity for means of production presented itself.

1773339382684.png
 
And @transplant I hope you didn't feel I was picking on you specifically. Your post was just a convenient quote for the point I had seen several people make.
@defaux Not a problem. Pick away. I enjoyed the discussion.

I still think the the bottom line is that if a creative writer claims ownership, the test is "Is it yours?" A person should be ethically or honor bound to give credit for significant edits, but that doesn't mean it's somebody else's work. The current versions of public AI are a step above the tools that for decades have been steadily getting smarter and more useful. With AI they have progressed to the point where cheating is easy, not great, but for most not an issue.

@JLT Makes a good point in that rules and expectations change depending on where you are in the real world, but there should still be an ethical bottom line. Maybe it's as simple as "No plagiarism."

This is off-topic but the term "AI" is still the misnomer it was 40 years ago when it was applied to well-coded decision trees which were more properly called expert systems. LLMs and the other technologies are amazing, and a big leap forward. LLMs can pass the 'indistinguishable from a human in conversation' test, but not the yet 'general intelligence' test. When it reaches that level I suppose it could then be properly called "AI". Also, as @Homer Potvin says, it's also become a marketing buzzword.

Where can I buy an AI dryer? Will it tell me when my shirts are out fashion, or hopefully, back in fashion?
 
Back
Top