How to Get Solid Feedback: The One Paragraph Shred

[Kallisto]

What is it?
The One Paragraph Shred is where you post one very short excerpt of your story. I recommend less than 200 words, but I've posted up as little as a single paragraph before. Then you just let the forum go crazy on it. I've seen it in Critique Circle in their forums, and I really am impressed with the quality of feedback that you receive when you do that.

And that's it. You can actually stop reading here if you want. The rest is just me making an argument as to why people ought to try it.

I often found critiques far too overwhelming, and I think that's because often there's too much feedback. This person over here is going on about "info dumps" and then you have this other guy talking about "the hook" and a third guy lecturing you about how the story doesn't feel "grounded" ... Uggg!!!! I don't even know what any of this means!
(NOTE: I'm not talking about the guy who is complaining you didn't show your big magical tree as being magical enough in Chapter 1... I'm talking about the people who understand they're reading Chapter 1 and that there's 59 more chapters for the stupid tree to be magical. Yes, this is oddly specific for a reason...)

But notice that in the good feedback, they're all saying basically the same thing, just in different ways and maybe pointing out different areas of your manuscript where these issues arose or where that mistake impacted their experience. And this is because writing styles are show of habit. If you don't congregate the verbs properly three different times in your opening paragraph, it's safe to assume you'll probably see that mistake in a lot of other places.

Also, presentation affects everything else. If you really do have problems writing in passive voice, it probably will affect the story's overall appeal. That can make descriptions feel like they're dragging on, thus an "info dump." Or not feel grounded. All of these really show the importance of good spelling and grammar.

On top of it, there's no question to the quality of feedback. If you go onto a critique forum they often have a minimum length for feedback; usually about 200 words. And I get it. They don't want people to come on and say "That was good" just so they have the credit to post their own. But often I look a manuscript and realize there really is just one major problem that, if fixed, would make the whole thing good. But if I wrote, "Hey, don't use passive voice. The End." that writer is going to feel like they didn't receive a quality feedback, because I "didn't read the whole thing." In reality they may have received the best feedback, because it's an easy fix and it makes a huge impact!

What would be the point of people reading through the whole thing at this point?

Actually, there is a reason people should read the whole thing.

Like most forms of feedback, this method is limited in what it could tell you. Obviously, it's not going to be able to tell anything about your characters or plot. They can't point out inconsistencies or whether they feel the major story arc ever felt resolved. Or if you introduced threads of plot that didn't go anywhere. Or if you Chapter 1 does everything a Chapter 1 is supposed to do.

These are things that are just as important and will require an actual read through.

 

[Luxuria]

I really like what you wrote here. I wonder if we should make a thread for this format. Because I would like to try it. Because my work is slower and even those who have tried to read my whole story, end up not getting it, because I am not one to rush things. Or be upfront. I am into books that are slow paced, and I write the same way.

 

[Kallisto]

I really like what you wrote here. I wonder if we should make a thread for this format. Because I would like to try it. Because my work is slower and even those who have tried to read my whole story, end up not getting it, because I am not one to rush things. Or be upfront. I am into books that are slow paced, and I write the same way.

It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking to see if your slow pace works, probably not. I would think that would require a read through.

However, if you're question is, "I'm drawing out this long description of a table (or whatever) but I'm not sure I'm making any sense with what I'm writing." Yeah, then this will help a lot.

One Paragraph Shreds are about minimal feedback with maximum impact. It's about finding that one little, easy to fix bad habit that you can then apply to and elevate the rest of your manuscript. For example, I found that I packed too many ideas into one sentence. (I think one person critiqued that there were at least three different subjects...) Well, that's not good. But you didn't need to read my whole manuscript to see that.

 

[Naomasa298]

Because my work is slower and even those who have tried to read my whole story, end up not getting it, because I am not one to rush things.

If someone has read your whole story and doesn't get it, that's valuable feedback too.

 

[Kallisto]

If someone has read your whole story and doesn't get it, that's valuable feedback too.

Is it though?

People would tell me often "Your descriptions are confusing." Okay... cool. And? How do I fix that? What specifically do you mean? I do agree there is merit to pointing out problems, but sometimes you don't have a clue!

But I think that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Luxuria]

If someone has read your whole story and doesn't get it, that's valuable feedback too.

That's the problem. No one on here has been allowed to read the WHOLE story, because I decide to stop sharing, because the story was clearly not a good fit for the person. Aka, not my target audience and they do not understand the characters or motives, etc. Or it becomes to dark. Or has content they don't want to read that they didn't tell me before hand. I am not faulting anyone for not finishing. I am just saying that my stories tend to be on the long side and so I have had a lack of feedback on a WHOLE piece, because my characters aren't meant to be loved and adored. My stories are dark and don't hold back. That's all.

 

[Homer Potvin]

If someone has read your whole story and doesn't get it, that's valuable feedback too.

Or if they can't get past the first page because it sucks, the brilliance of page 62 will never come.

 

[Luxuria]

Is it though?

People would tell me often "Your descriptions are confusing." Okay... cool. And? How do I fix that? What specifically do you mean? I do agree there is merit to pointing out problems, but sometimes you don't have a clue!

But I think that's a topic for another thread.

I don't think so. Because as I said above, I sometimes end up sharing with people who I realize are not my target audience for a variety of reasons. I also tend to write Gay and Lesbian characters, which not everyone is interested in reading. Which I understand. The thing is, I have had people say they like dark stories and then decide that my work is too dark. LOL.

 

[Luxuria]

Or if they can't get past the first page because it sucks, the brilliance of page 62 will never come.

That is fair. I think that it's not the writing so much as that I tend to write long epics? So the inciting incident is in chapters 1-3, rather than In Media Res? Or you don't realize it's the inciting incident until you're on chapter 10 and it's a slow snowball effect.

 

[Homer Potvin]

I wonder if we should make a thread for this format.

What would that look like and how would it be different from any other Workshop post?

 

[Luxuria]

What would that look like and how would it be different from any other Workshop post?

Well, we could make a tag for the format. But I think having it be a big thread would make it easier for people to just get feedback in this style. Instead of many threads that lead to confusion and people giving long feedback that is, "I don't understand this piece". I think just having a thread where people can do this style would be helpful as it would be casual.

 

[Naomasa298]

Is it though?

Yes.

People would tell me often "Your descriptions are confusing." Okay... cool. And? How do I fix that? What specifically do you mean? I do agree there is merit to pointing out problems, but sometimes you don't have a clue!

Make them less confusing.

If you are looking for *specific* information to fix a story, especially a one longer than a short story, then you need an editor, not a workshop. Me, I won't tell you specifically how to fix it, but I'll tell you what I find confusing about it, and you can go off and fix that on your own - that's your job as the writer. If *all* your descriptions are confusing, that's a deeper problem.

It all depends what you expect from a workshop. There are things it's useful for, things it isn't.

I wouldn't use this style, because what I'm looking for isn't paragraph level feedback, it's story level. You're not going to get that my character is a whiny little bitch just from one paragraph.

 

[Naomasa298]

That is fair. I think that it's not the writing so much as that I tend to write long epics? So the inciting incident is in chapters 1-3, rather than In Media Res? Or you don't realize it's the inciting incident until you're on chapter 10 and it's a slow snowball effect.

Stories don't have to start in media res. They need to *promise* that something is going to happen. If you're going to start with three chapters of mundane, daily life, just to set to scene, and the reader gets bored and puts the book down, that's a structural failure.

Dune's inciting incident doesn't come until about a third of the way into the book. But it feels like it's building towards something big from page 1. You keep turning the page because you want to see what's going to break.

 

[Naomasa298]

That's the problem. No one on here has been allowed to read the WHOLE story, because I decide to stop sharing, because the story was clearly not a good fit for the person. Aka, not my target audience and they do not understand the characters or motives, etc. Or it becomes to dark. Or has content they don't want to read that they didn't tell me before hand. I am not faulting anyone for not finishing. I am just saying that my stories tend to be on the long side and so I have had a lack of feedback on a WHOLE piece, because my characters aren't meant to be loved and adored. My stories are dark and don't hold back. That's all.

Stephen King's books are dark, and don't hold back much. They're also long.

If they don't understand your characters, or motives, that's a different issue. That's potentially a failing on your part, as the author, possibly because you're relying on knowledge that they don't have, or that you didn't provide on the page.

 

[Luxuria]

Stories don't have to start in media res. They need to *promise* that something is going to happen. If you're going to start with three chapters of mundane, daily life, just to set to scene, and the reader gets bored and puts the book down, that's a structural failure.

That's fair. But I think readers expect everything in the 1st chapter these days and it's annoying. I DON'T start with mundane life. Things happen, like Harker arriving at Dracula's castle. But I think people want Dracula revealed in the first chapter to be a vampire and for Harker to run away screaming. I don't think it is my fault that readers are impatient and want Amazon books that deliver ASAP.

Stephen King's books are dark, and don't hold back much. They're also long.

Haha. Yeah. People have said that. But still, somehow I write darker. (I read Game of Thrones and shrugged.) How I know, is that people have said after my giving general warnings, "I'm good with dark stories and fine with anything." Then, they discover that they are not. Because I think people believe they KNOW and can read dark work. But when in fact, what they think is dark is medium-roast on the coffee-scale and I serve them espresso.

If they don't understand your characters, or motives, that's a different issue. That's potentially a failing on your part, as the author, possibly because you're relying on knowledge that they don't have, or that you didn't provide on the page.

I disagree. I think that people just have the wrong expectations of my characters. They expect the protagonist to be 'good' or 'kind and heroic'. And the story to have a clear sense of 'good and evil'. But my stories do not. My characters are complex and not always good people. So, people tend to hate them, because they go against expectations. I don't think it is a failing on my part that I don't write characters who are angels.

I blame readers having expectations of heroics and being unable to grasp character nuance.

 

[Stuart Dren]

I mean, on any of these forums, what, five people might read what you post in the workshop?

OP finds it distracting or unhelpful to get broad picture comments; they apparently just want prose critique. Posting a shorter excerpt generally increases the number of people willing to read and comment, too. Seems like win/win. I'd say most writers tend to want much more than prose help, though.

That's fair. But I think readers expect everything in the 1st chapter these days and it's annoying. I DON'T start with mundane life. Things happen, like Harker arriving at Dracula's castle. But I think people want Dracula revealed in the first chapter to be a vampire and for Harker to run away screaming. I don't think it is my fault that readers are impatient and want Amazon books that deliver ASAP.

Haha. Yeah. People have said that. But still, somehow I write darker. How I know, is that people have said after my giving general warnings, "I'm good with dark stories and fine with anything." Then, they discover that they are not. Because I think people believe they KNOW and can read dark work. But when in fact, what they think is dark is medium-roast on the coffee-scale and I serve them espresso.

I disagree. I think that people just have the wrong expectations of my characters. They expect the protagonist to be 'good' or 'kind and heroic'. And the story to have a clear sense of 'good and evil'. But my stories do not. My characters are complex and not always good people. So, people tend to hate them, because they go against expectations. I don't think it is a failing on my part that I don't write characters who are angels.

I blame readers having expectations of heroics and unable to grasp character nuance.

You go, girl.

 

[Naomasa298]

I disagree. I think that people just have the wrong expectations of my characters. They expect the protagonist to be 'good' or 'kind and heroic'. And the story to have a clear sense of 'good and evil'. But my stories do not. My characters are complex and not always good people. So, people tend to hate them, because they go against expectations. I don't think it is a failing on my part that I don't write characters who are angels.

They expect it if that's what the story promises. Even then, that can be worked around. You don't need characters who are good, you need characters who are *understandable*. None of the characters in Pulp Fiction are likeable. Leto Atriedes spends most of God Emperor of Dune being a dick, and deliberately. Game of Thrones is full of them.

In fact, The Boys is mostly like that, and the one "good" character is the least interesting one of all.

 

[Homer Potvin]

Stories don't have to start in media res. They need to *promise* that something is going to happen. If you're going to start with three chapters of mundane, daily life, just to set to scene, and the reader gets bored and puts the book down, that's a structural failure.

Dune's inciting incident doesn't come until about a third of the way into the book. But it feels like it's building towards something big from page 1. You keep turning the page because you want to see what's going to break.

The Gom Jabbar and Kwitzak (however the fuck you spell it) are on page one or two, the plot line of which has more inertia throughout the series than the Harkonnen plot line, which plays out in book one.

I blame readers having expectations of heroics and being unable to grasp character nuance.

They're going to read what they want to read. If you want them to read you, you probably have to make some adjustments. There isn't a secret cabal of "your readers" waiting out there for you to discover them. Boring is boring is boring. No other way to slice it. Not saying what you write is boring at all--what I've read is not--but pacing doesn't have everything to do with the boring factor.

 

[Luxuria]

OP finds it distracting or unhelpful to get broad picture comments; they apparently just want prose critique. Posting a shorter excerpt generally increases the number of people willing to read and comment, too. Seems like win/win. I'd say most writers tend to want much more than prose help, though.

Yeah, I agree with this. Prose help is much different than overall assistance/feedback. I know you could ask at the beginning of your post, but people are lazy and don't read. Yes, shorter work does get more feedback, which is good, but does not incentivize posting whole chapters.

You go, girl.

Thank you.

 

[Luxuria]

They expect it if that's what the story promises. Even then, that can be worked around. You don't need characters who are good, you need characters who are *understandable*. None of the characters in Pulp Fiction are likeable. Leto Atriedes spends most of God Emperor of Dune being a dick, and deliberately. Game of Thrones is full of them.

I will respectfully disagree with you on this. Yes, the characters in dune and Pulp Fiction are not likeable. But people expect the main character of most ANY work to be good and heroic. I mean, Game of Thrones has Ned Stark as the lead. Imagine if the lead was Cerci or Joffrey? As for understandable, my characters are, but I think readers don't want to admit they relate to these characters.

They're going to read what they want to read. If you want them to read you, you probably have to make some adjustments. There isn't a secret cabal of "your readers" waiting out there for you to discover them. Boring is boring is boring. No other way to slice it. Not saying what you write is boring at all--what I've read is not--but pacing doesn't have everything to do with the boring factor.

Again, I see what you are saying. Readers will read what they want. But I also think there is some readers who literally don't get it.