Character Question: female characters in a male-dominated world

Don't tell that to any Scottish person
That would be her parents. But anyhow...

We must remember that winners wrote the history books, and they tended to be male. Kinda always, actually. Boys being boys, they're wont to omit how they only conquered X due to their wives and mothers packing them a nice lunch and making sure they had a clean breech cloth and a spare toga. And various other things that kept everyone from killing each other before they even left port. Not all heroes wield swords.
 
We must remember that winners wrote the history books, and they tended to be male. Kinda always, actually. Boys being boys, they're wont to omit how they only conquered X due to their wives and mothers packing them a nice lunch and making sure they had a clean breech cloth and a spare toga. And various other things that kept everyone from killing each other before they even left port. Not all heroes wield swords.
I was itching to say something similar for a while now.

True to say, implanting modern conventions into a historical setting annoys me as much as it does for everyone else posting on this thread.

History has largely been written by men. Many of the contemporaneous records were written by men whose views on race, gender, class structure, etc was framed within their (privileged) positions. Traditionalist views on all these complex human experiences in modern writing is just as irritating to me as modern conventions in historical settings.

Women have largely been written out of history, so much so that fresh historian eyes are writing books about how that came to be. There's some revision redressing some of that, including greater recognition of the roles played by women in the Easter Rising, War of Independence (Ireland). The French Resistance wasn't by any means a boys' club and good luck writing ancient Rome without dealing with very powerful women. They may not have been in the Senate, but they were still hugely instrumental.

Another thing maybe to consider, did ancient civilisations have the same issues with non-binary sexuality or is that a construct of modern religious doctrine? My impression has always been that the orgies in ancient Rome were fairly indiscriminate.

Things were different back then, but I'm not sure human nature was. People resisted the restrictions imposed on them, whether by outward social activism or inward turmoil. I'm pretty sure Henry VIII's wives weren't just sitting around waiting to see what he might do next. Like all writing, intersting historical fiction will reveal the characters and not just the posed photograph of everyone looking stern and stoic in their formal suits.
 
History has largely been written by men. Many of the contemporaneous records were written by men whose views on race, gender, class structure, etc was framed within their (privileged) positions. Traditionalist views on all these complex human experiences in modern writing is just as irritating to me as modern conventions in historical settings.

Women have largely been written out of history, so much so that fresh historian eyes are writing books about how that came to be. There's some revision redressing some of that, including greater recognition of the roles played by women in the Easter Rising, War of Independence (Ireland). The French Resistance wasn't by any means a boys' club and good luck writing ancient Rome without dealing with very powerful women. They may not have been in the Senate, but they were still hugely instrumental.

Don't forget the fact that although William the Bastardly Conqueror grabbed all the headlines in 1066, the Bayeux Tapestry was largely woven by nuns -- and English nuns, at that.

Here's a fun fact: during World War II, the Nazis (especially Heinrich Himmler) were obsessed with the Bayeux Tapestry, and it was at risk of being destroyed or lost. The Nazis tried to steal it several times, but the Resistance thwarted them. They also tried to use it as a propaganda tool by transporting it across France, which put it at risk of damage. Luckily, it survived and was eventually returned to Bayeux after the war.

Of course women played a huge role in history. The Minoan civilization on Crete are famous for women holding a significant and prominent role in daily life, more so than in many other ancient societies. Evidence suggests a society where women were highly respected.

The medieval Norse, too, are a riddle. Outwardly, they appear to be a little boys' club. But their sagas mention plenty of heroic women too, and their priestesses (known as völvas) served as intermediaries between humans and the gods. They were highly respected, even by the gods, and wielded significant power through their ability to practice seidr, a type of shamanic magic.

Things were different back then, but I'm not sure human nature was. People resisted the restrictions imposed on them, whether by outward social activism or inward turmoil. I'm pretty sure Henry VIII's wives weren't just sitting around waiting to see what he might do next. Like all writing, interesting historical fiction will reveal the characters and not just the posed photograph of everyone looking stern and stoic in their formal suits.

Ha! Just the phrase "everyone looking stern and stoic in their formal suits" reminds me of the Victorians. And here's the thing: lots of people think the Victorians were intensely prudish, even to the point of covering up table legs. (Oh no! I said "leg"! The sky is falling!) =P

But those Victorians were randy buggers. =P Anyone who thinks otherwise only has to think about it: if the Victorians never had sex, how did the Edwardian age happen? ;)
 
Another thing maybe to consider, did ancient civilisations have the same issues with non-binary sexuality or is that a construct of modern religious doctrine? My impression has always been that the orgies in ancient Rome were fairly indiscriminate.
Yeah, the Greeks and Romans didn't care. It wasn't a thing until the modern monotheistic religions legislated morality and told everyone what they should be ashamed about.
 
To solve this, I made my female characters strong and independent, with goals of their own. They work to fulfil these goals, but within the strictures of the societies they are in; and after much struggle, they prevail.
Sounds like you already have your solution here.

There's no reason you can't write a female historical protagonist AND remain accurate
To me, Historical Fiction is about using a historical setting as accurately as you like, and asking the question "What if?" Any obstacles that the setting presents may then be overcome by the heroine as part of her journey. Creating alternative history allows to make such adjustments as necessary to tell your story.
 
Yeah, the Greeks and Romans didn't care. It wasn't a thing until the modern monotheistic religions legislated morality and told everyone what they should be ashamed about.
I think it is more complex than that. The romans did care. The social categories of who could be slept with were different than modern day and complex. I can’t say more than that. Forum rules. I suggest reading Sutonius and Cassius Dio.
 
To me, Historical Fiction is about using a historical setting as accurately as you like, and asking the question "What if?" Any obstacles that the setting presents may then be overcome by the heroine as part of her journey. Creating alternative history allows to make such adjustments as necessary to tell your story.

Depends on the question. "What if Hitler had rayguns" is historical fantasy, not historical fiction, just the same as positing that Guillaume le Marechal was, in fact, a woman.
 
I think it is more complex than that. The romans did care. The social categories of who could be slept with were different than modern day and complex. I can’t say more than that. Forum rules. I suggest reading Sutonius and Cassius Dio.

From memory, the Greeks, and possibly the Romans, cared more about who was doing the penetrating and who was being penetrated. The latter was a subordinate position, and to be looked down on. Just going entirely on memory here.
 
Depends on the question. "What if Hitler had rayguns" is historical fantasy, not historical fiction, just the same as positing that Guillaume le Marechal was, in fact, a woman.
I see your point, but how nuanced is the delineation between the two genres? How much can you tweak historical context before it becomes fantasy?
 
Depends on the question. "What if Hitler had rayguns" is historical fantasy, not historical fiction, just the same as positing that Guillaume le Marechal was, in fact, a woman.

OK, true. But on the other hand ... for instance, when Churchill was in New York in 1932, he was knocked down by a taxi and nearly killed. So to me, asking "What if Churchill had been killed by the taxi?" would be historical fiction. Do you agree?

Still, that story would tread very familiar territory: In all probability, Lord Halifax would become PM. He would sign a peace treaty with Hitler. And the rest we know.

I see your point, but how nuanced is the delineation between the two genres? How much can you tweak historical context before it becomes fantasy?

I don't know if it's possible to answer this absolutely accurately. Maybe using our judgment is best. :)

So, going by the Churchill idea above: if Churchill was killed by a taxi, that's historical fiction. If he was killed by a police horse that reared at the wrong moment ... possible, but sounds contrived.

But if there was a circus parade, and Churchill was killed by a passing elephant ... that's historical fantasy. *G*
 
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