It Began in a Tavern (OOC Thread) (Part 2)

[ps102]

Hello everyone,

I feel like it's important to note that because the story is currently shifting to a new phase, it might make coming up with a continuation very difficult. This is mostly because right now, there isn't really any clear direction as to where the story is supposed to go next like there was before, where the goal was to make it to Cliffcross and create a battle between everyone, which did end in disaster as planned.

This can definitely make writing the next post harder. So, if you feel like you're having a hard time with a new post, know that it's not necessarily you.

I would also say that if you're stuck for ideas, it's totally okay to come to this thread and ask for help. Maybe for ideas, or if you're stuck with some detail, please feel free to make a post here It's a team effort, so you don't necessarily need to write a post completely by yourself.

I'd also like to say that perhaps, it might be a good idea to discuss what the next phase is about. I know we've been writing discovery style this whole time but... what if we all work together to do some plotting? Not necessarily write a huge outline that details every little thing that happens next (I think that would be super boring), but some key plot points that cover the major events. This is so we can use those events as goal posts.

We don't necessarily need to do the above if this is not wanted though—it's just an idea. What do you all think? It doesn't need to be a massive effort or anything like that. All we might need to do is exchange some ideas between each other until there is unanimous agreement so everyone is happy.

There isn't a whole lot left. We've actually written 70k words total! That's so much, and it's honestly amazing that we have come so far. I'd say that another 15k-20k is enough to do the trick. The world is at a stage of catastrophe right now, which I think brings a lot of potential for a lot of tension through urgency. But urgency also requires a bit of an immediate threat ticking in the background. This can come from what Melina plans next. Remember that her goal is to assemble the gear, but what she wants to do remains unknown. I do actually more or less have an idea as to what this is but I think at this point, it's probably best that I stop keeping it a secret.

Thoughts?

 

[Luxuria]

This is all great information and I wanted to ask about a plot point. I know when I was in the RP, we talked about Barnabas saving Ravenna? Is that still a story thread?

 

[ps102]

This is all great information and I wanted to ask about a plot point. I know when I was in the RP, we talked about Barnabas saving Ravenna? Is that still a story thread?

It's not off the table, but for this to happen, Barnabas needs to meet Katara first—since Ravenna is with her pretty much 100% of the time.

Katara and Barnabas are characters of Louanne, so she gets to decide when that happens. She also gets to decide whether Barnabas saves Ravenna. For this to even happen, the time, place and circumstances need to be right. Basically, the moment needs to be right, and I'd say that there should also be a purpose to the action. It should have some significance to the narrative.

Regardless, it's hard to say right now because the rest of the story needs to be shaped at least a little first.

 

[Luxuria]

Regardless, it's hard to say right now because the rest of the story needs to be shaped at least a little first.

That is fair. I just thought I might put it on the table again. Does not have to happen, I just like the idea a lot.

 

[ps102]

That is fair. I just thought I might put it on the table again. Does not have to happen, I just like the idea a lot.

If you think about it, Barnabas has been working for Melina all this time. He's probably done a lot of wrong. Maybe saving Ravenna could be his first "good" act and doorway to many others.

It's pretty much certain that Barnabas is slowly being converted away from the queen's side. That said, he has often insisted that the queen "affords him opportunity", which I always interpreted as "I don't give a single care about her. I just like the science opportunity". I'm not sure he was ever to on her side to begin with.

Encountering Dusca seems to have caused a lot of changes to his mind though. I don't know what Louanne is planning or has in mind but the save Ravenna thing could be used to "wrap up" his conversion. Again, that's largely up to her. I don't really want to ruin the Dusca-Barnabas-Katara plot-line because it's been really good so far. What I like most is the slow-burn progression. It hasn't been half-baked, cheap and quick. Just naturally slow if that makes sense. I'm always looking forward to seeing more of how it develops. So, really, it's up to her.

It's not a huge problem either way. Sophia (aka Olive) can always heal her with Yuuna's power. Yuuna has been shown to have the ability to heal more than her host, so it makes sense.

 

[Louanne Learning]

talked about Barnabas saving Ravenna?

Definitely would like to have Barnabas come in on the good side for all three girls.

I don't know what Louanne is planning

Lol, neither do I!

I have to be honest, Christmastime has arrived and I am very distracted with family get-togethers!!

I suggest we take a little break over the Christmas holidays, and come back the first week of January, guns a-blazing!

@IgnitedxSoul - I'm not sure if you have started your entry yet, but if not, I can start first week of January with mine.

 

[ps102]

@IgnitedxSoul - I'm not sure if you have started your entry yet, but if not, I can start first week of January with mine.

I will leave this up to him. He is more than welcome to post any day before January 2nd though. But if he is caught up with the holidays and can't post even with all this time, then what you're suggesting here is a great idea. Basically, the turn comes back to you when we re-start, and then to @IgnitedxSoul so his turn isn't skipped. Really good idea!

I have to be honest, Christmastime has arrived and I am very distracted with family get-togethers!!

No worries! I'm not expecting much right now as I said. It is the holidays! Even if Soul does post, I would freeze the roleplay anyway until January 2nd to prevent your turn from happening mid-Christmas. It'd be rude to call your turn during that!

I suggest we take a little break over the Christmas holidays, and come back the first week of January, guns a-blazing!

Agreed. Let's discuss the plot stuff on January 2nd. I'm really excited to get the rest of the story going. I have so much planned for Sophia. I do apologize if I brought this up at a bad time. I didn't know people were already getting busy with the holidays!

Definitely would like to have Barnabas come in on the good side for all three girls.

However you execute it, I am really looking forward to it!

 

[IgnitedxSoul]

I fully intend to have my post up by Jan 2nd! I've made some progress already!

 

[ps102]

I fully intend to have my post up by Jan 2nd! I've made some progress already!

I can't wait to read it! I've been itching to read more of this for like a month now. No pressure of course Take your time.

 

[ps102]

How goes your entry, @IgnitedxSoul? Do you think you'll have it posted by tomorrow?

 

[IgnitedxSoul]

Posted!

 

[ps102]

Posted!

What lovely writing! For some reason, I love the way you wrote Olten navigating the darkness. It has a certain creepiness to it that does a lot of justice to the theme. I'm also happy to see that you decided for Pria to be relatively unharmed after consuming the fragment. This actually implies that she is really strong, which makes a lot of sense. Melina wouldn't just randomly hand a fragment. We could say that she chose Pria because she knew that she was capable of this.

I guess it's my turn next. I am working on my novel tonight so I will start tomorrow. I'm not going to write another massive post though so it shouldn't take ages, I hope!

 

[Louanne Learning]

Posted!

That was fantastic. Kept my attention riveted. It has something to do with the way that you write, too. Loved it.

I guess it's my turn next. I am working on my novel tonight so I will start tomorrow.

yes, we'll get back into the rotation, thanks!

I am wondering where Araspeth and Gamma should go??

 

[ps102]

I am wondering where Araspeth and Gamma should go??

There is so much to wonder about currently. We really should have a big discussion on what happens next.

Warning... long post ahead. Save it for when you have the time.

The sun has blown up and the world is in total darkness. This has so much potential that we should absolutely exploit for some good old tension. I did some research on what would happen to the earth if the sun were to disappear and found that at best, humanity would have a couple of weeks left to live.

First problem is how trees and plants need sunlight for photosynthesis. Small plants like grass would die within days. Big trees can survive for years though (they have large food stores).

Second problem is how the temperature would drop rapidly. The world would swiftly enter an ice age and that already makes challenges for humanity. Of course, the more time passes, the colder it gets, and there is a point where humans simply can't survive.

Those are the two basic facts. There are no definite time windows (because it's impossible to know) so we should make up our own time frames. The main point of all this is to use those factors to create a rush. Our characters only have limited time to fix it as their very world crumbles away.

The main question is: what happens between now and the climax? What do our characters do? So far, we know that Melina will be looking for the rest of the gear fragments. At this point, I think it's time I tell you what Melina wants. I've been hiding it to save it for a surprise but I think it would be helpful to reveal it so we can do a bit of planning together.

Melina wants to kill God and take his place as Goddess. The "God" of the world is basically what we've been referring to as "The Architect", whom laid the foundations for everything. The spirits built upon them using the "gear". The gear is essentially a powerful world-altering device the spirits used to modify the world using their elements—Yuuna constructed the sun using her light, for example. It is an artifact the architect constructed so the spirits could work the world into shape. Think of how computer manufacturers give you a keyboard and mouse to control the cyber domain within it to make your own creations.

She thinks that the gear will allow her to tear space apart and go to the dimension The Architect resides in. I'm not sure how she intends to kill him (is it a him? she? We should probably go with a gender neutral pronoun). Obviously, she will fail that through some way, and our characters would prevail and save the world.

As for why Melina wants to do that... it's because she is obsessed with power. Her original self (Myrto) was damned by powerlessness. She experienced what happens to those who don't have power first hand. Everything that happened to her (and her mother) stirred deep rage inside her. That's why she wants to find God. She hates God for creating such a terrible and unfair world, so she seeks revenge and control of it for herself. Kurai used that rage to manipulate her. (We'll talk about him later).

This is the very basic skeleton of things, and there is a lot to fill in between and after. It's also not final and we can change things through discussion (hence why I am sharing all of it).

But I think it's an interesting premise overall. Melina wants to destroy everything and become God, possibly to make a fairer world in the process. This raises the philosophical question: Should we destroy everything (and kill everyone in the process) for the sake of creating a fairer world... sort of like a utopia? Is it possible? Good idea? Bad idea?

Basically, our characters should provide an answer to this question and respond to Melina accordingly. I feel @Louanne Learning can provide a lot of input here. It's pretty tough but I think this is where the argument of this story lies largely since it's about social inequality at its heart. Isn't that why we have the three major social classes to represent the cast? A poet, lab rat, and mage. Their destiny is to change the world. Not to mention, we've been exploring some minor political themes from the beginning.

There is this and more. I'm not saying we should plot every little detail but we should discuss these things and come to a conclusion of what we want to happen, and what we want the story to thematically be... what we want it to say at the end.

Olive/Sophia is tasked with stopping Melina. What should Katara's task be? What should Ravenna do? I think it's critical that all of these characters have solid and distinct roles. I understand that Sophia is meant to be quite protagonistic but I feel that the eventual good resolution of the story should require equal contribution from all three.

We also have Olten, Pria and Wren. They should have a slice of the pie too.

Sophia is my character and I can tell you that I will temporarily isolate her from the rest of the cast for development reasons. She will spend time becoming someone who can actually go toe-to-toe with the queen and she will join up with the rest of the characters again when that happens.

The isolation period is a great time for the rest of the characters to do their own thing and develop themselves. But how they spend that period is completely up to their creators—and also what happens to the story.

What I am about to say is merely a suggestion: an idea that did pop up in my mind is how Katara could go back in town where the tavern is and form a resistance against the queen, mainly opposed of other poets and maybe even mages. She and her father (Barnabas) could use their science side to form a plan on how they can launch a full blown assult against the queen to seize the gear fragments she already has. A plan that will actually work and not result in them getting toasted by her earthquake magic.

Just an idea! Nothing more than that. But really, all of this is up to discussion and change. And remember, none of this really decides the full story. We're merely talking about key plot points and not everything.

I really need everyone's input here, including yours @Luxuria if you feel like it. When we do decide on the key plot points (if we do at all), I would like it if you had an opinion on Ravenna's role. I want to write Ravenna in the way you intended.

 

[Luxuria]

There is so much to wonder about currently. We really should have a big discussion on what happens next.

Agreed! Thanks for tagging me into it. I appreciate it a lot. I still have a soft-spot in my heart for Ravenna. I sometimes miss writing her, but I am so busy with school, I would need generous time allowances.

The sun has blown up and the world is in total darkness. This has so much potential that we should absolutely exploit for some good old tension. I did some research on what would happen to the earth if the sun were to disappear and found that at best, humanity would have a couple of weeks left to live.

Okay, cool. I like this rundown and also, destroying the sun is always a fun thing to do. Yeah, a couple of weeks would make sense. Thanks for the research. Another thing I wanted to ask though, is if the sun is GONE, GONE, like the mass is no longer there, how long would earth and the other planets stay in orbit? This the earth about to crash with Mars and the moon? I think the sun disappearing would cause a lot of gravitational issues. Because I am sure it does more than just give light. Like the moon, it may (research needed) serve as a counter balance/ tide maker. I also know this offset might take ages, but I see the planets sliding out of orbit, the asteroid belt being pulled toward Jupiter, etc. I also think the moon might shift toward the earth. Which would cause a LOT of issues.

The main question is: what happens between now and the climax? What do our characters do?

Um... interesting. I can only speak really for Ravenna or at least propose what I want to happen to Ravenna. I think there might be some initial panic from EVERYONE on earth. Then, people trying to figure out what to do. Then, finally resigning to fate or putting their solution into the works. I think from a reader pov, having some global perspective might help show the scale of the horrible event.

She thinks that the gear will allow her to tear space apart and go to the dimension The Architect resides in. I'm not sure how she intends to kill him (is it a him? she? We should probably go with a gender neutral pronoun). Obviously, she will fail that through some way, and our characters would prevail and save the world.

I honestly think God should be a he or she. Because using they makes for a great grammatical challenge in English. Because if you have they and a group of people also called they, it gets confusing. Since this is a collective work, I think having a sex for God is good. So no one is confused or grammatically challenged.

I think this is where the argument of this story lies largely since it's about social inequality at its heart. Isn't that why we have the three major social classes to represent the cast? A poet, lab rat, and mage.

Agreed. I think it is about social inequality.

What should Ravenna do?

I think you did a great thing by revealing that her family is alive. Because at this point, Ravenna, if the reveal had not happened, would most likely decide to side with the Queen. Because she wants everything destroyed and rebuilt. Because life is unfair and part of her still wants revenge against the scientists. But, since her family is alive, she realizes she doesn't want them to die. The key is though, making her realize that everyone on the planet is important. I think Ravenna should join Katara or urge Barnabas to allow all the lab rats to go free and end the experiments. If he does that, she will help them. If he doesn't agree, she's leaving the party to search for her family. Because the world is ending and she wants to be with them.

Also, HOW are they getting to God? Is there a rainbow bridge or portal? I assume they want to stop the Queen from killing him. But I think the main thing I would want to know as the reader is 'why'. Why should we keep a god alive that 'created' such an unfair world? Maybe that's what Ravenna needs to be convinced - the world is worth saving. She's already part way there as she wants to save her family. But she also needs a reason to save everyone else.

I really need everyone's input here, including yours @Luxuria if you feel like it. When we do decide on the key plot points (if we do at all), I would like it if you had an opinion on Ravenna's role. I want to write Ravenna in the way you intended.

Yeah, I am always up for story discussions. I love them. And yes, I agree. We should agree on key plot points. And thank you. I appreciate it. I think we can scrap the 'she's dying' plot, because it doesn't serve the greater picture. But I do think there should be some conflict with the others, because they're like, "We gotta save the world!" and Ravenna's like: "Why? The world sucks. I want to just be with my family when I die."

 

[ps102]

Another thing I wanted to ask though, is if the sun is GONE, GONE, like the mass is no longer there, how long would earth and the other planets stay in orbit? This the earth about to crash with Mars and the moon? I think the sun disappearing would cause a lot of gravitational issues.

I found this in my research as well, but I am just going to conveniently ignore it because extra-planetary events would be hard to show. There are bigger fish to fry if that makes sense. Though if any of the writers feel like exploring this, then feel free to register interest.

Tl;dr: The earth would indeed go out of orbit pretty fast and just float into space, possibly crashing into something. We're just going to say that it doesn't crash into anything and we're good. Magic can fix everything later

I honestly think God should be a he or she. Because using they makes for a great grammatical challenge in English. Because if you have they and a group of people also called they, it gets confusing. Since this is a collective work, I think having a sex for God is good. So no one is confused or grammatically challenged.

That's a valid concern... unless we come up with a pronoun specifically for God.

I think you did a great thing by revealing that her family is alive. Because at this point, Ravenna, if the reveal had not happened, would most likely decide to side with the Queen. Because she wants everything destroyed and rebuilt. Because life is unfair and part of her still wants revenge against the scientists. But, since her family is alive, she realizes she doesn't want them to die. The key is though, making her realize that everyone on the planet is important. I think Ravenna should join Katara or urge Barnabas to allow all the lab rats to go free and end the experiments. If he does that, she will help them. If he doesn't agree, she's leaving the party to search for her family. Because the world is ending and she wants to be with them.

Main characters turning evil has happened in other works (looking at you, Zuko!). It's something that we won't explore here though and I'm glad you agree with that.

Also, HOW are they getting to God? Is there a rainbow bridge or portal?

I covered this (albeit briefly) in my earlier post. We have to turn back into good old physics to answer this more concretely. Our world has three spatial dimensions: depth, width and height. There are actual theories in physics that cover the potential existence extra spatial dimensions.

A lady on YouTube explained it superbly well using a cube. When you look at it from an outside perspective, it only has three dimensions. But if you unravel every side and lay it flat, there are suddenly more faces (the inner sides) that you otherwise couldn't see before. I wish I could find the video but it's been a long time.

Melina wants to tear through the outside (the fabric of space) and go into a hypothetical extra dimension, where God resides.

Why should we keep a god alive that 'created' such an unfair world? Maybe that's what Ravenna needs to be convinced - the world is worth saving. She's already part way there as she wants to save her family. But she also needs a reason to save everyone else.

Well, the first answer to that is: Melina would turn into Goddess instead. Would our characters really want her to govern all of a existence? It seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

She's already part way there as she wants to save her family. But she also needs a reason to save everyone else.

I think this one is pretty easy. Arthur also has a family he cares about, and he explicitly stated that he has no interest in the whole ordeal. But in the end, he ventured outside to fight because he understands that his family would die if he did nothing. He doesn't want his family to die and I imagine neither does Ravenna. She not only wants them to live on, but also lead better lives.

Sure, she can go out and find her family and then do nothing else, but her real duty is to help reshape the world into something better—as was written in the scriptures. If she does nothing, her family dies because the queen can't be defeated. And let us be clear that Melina wouldn't really enact mercy on her fellow humans as a Goddess. She has no compassion, partly because Kurai corrupted her.

I think this is all sound enough. Do you agree?

 

[Luxuria]

Tl;dr: The earth would indeed go out of orbit pretty fast and just float into space, possibly crashing into something. We're just going to say that it doesn't crash into anything and we're good. Magic can fix everything later

That's fair. We might just say that momentem is keeping it in line for now, but it will soon begin to sway off course. (But magic will fix it before then.)

That's a valid concern... unless we come up with a pronoun specifically for God.

Nah. I think for the sake of simplicity, choose he or she. Creating a pronoun will also be a grammar issue, because we will have to remember at least 3 new variations. Not to mention possessives, etc. For me, it feels just as grammar intensive.

Main characters turning evil has happened in other works (looking at you, Zuko!). It's something that we won't explore here though and I'm glad you agree with that.

Yeah, but even if Ravenna won't turn evil, I feel like she needs to consider if she wants the world destroyed. I don't see her as a perfect hero, by any means. I think it's a discussion she should have and the others present reasons WHY she should help them, instead of more likely than turning evil, doing nothing. Because she doesn't feel very useful in this whole journey and doesn't put much stock in a prophesy.

Melina wants to tear through the outside (the fabric of space) and go into a hypothetical extra dimension, where God resides.

Okay, so she wants to break into Dante's Empyrean? (See map below from Dante):

Well, the first answer to that is: Melina would turn into Goddess instead. Would our characters really want her to govern all of a existence? It seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

Well, why don't THEY govern all of existence? They kill Melina and take the throne collectively. Because again, why would we want the Architect to rule if he's done such a shitty job?

He doesn't want his family to die and I imagine neither does Ravenna. She not only wants them to live on, but also lead better lives.

That's true. She doesn't want them to die, but she feels helpless to stop everything that's happening. She doesn't have the smarts or the magic to do much, or so she thinks.

If she does nothing, her family dies because the queen can't be defeated.

Well, Ravenna's also counting on the idea that she won't be alive either and even though I know she cares a lot about Olive and Katara, I still think it comes down Ravenna thinking she can't do anything to fix the situation. So, she would rather find her family and die. Because what happens after she's gone isn't her concern. (She's acting selfish, that's true. But I feel she needs a GOOD reason).

 

[Louanne Learning]

The sun has blown up and the world is in total darkness. This has so much potential that we should absolutely exploit for some good old tension. I did some research on what would happen to the earth if the sun were to disappear and found that at best, humanity would have a couple of weeks left to live.

First problem is how trees and plants need sunlight for photosynthesis. Small plants like grass would die within days. Big trees can survive for years though (they have large food stores).

Second problem is how the temperature would drop rapidly. The world would swiftly enter an ice age and that already makes challenges for humanity. Of course, the more time passes, the colder it gets, and there is a point where humans simply can't survive.

This tends to suggest the sun should be "out" for not more than a few days.

what happens between now and the climax? What do our characters do?

We need to get them all together in one spot?

Melina wants to kill God and take his place as Goddess. The "God" of the world is basically what we've been referring to as "The Architect"

It may be time to introduce the character "the Architect" into the story.

She thinks that the gear will allow her to tear space apart and go to the dimension The Architect resides in.

or - the Architect appears in this dimension - and maybe the result will be that Melina can end up harmless and powerlessness in an alternate universe.

Who do we want to win?

Should Melina's rage be diffused? Is there any redemption for her? Or will she just be destroyed?

I am wondering if the Architect can appear alongside the ghosts of the monks in the ruined abbey

She hates God for creating such a terrible and unfair world, so she seeks revenge and control of it for herself. Kurai used that rage to manipulate her.

That she has been manipulated is significant. It suggests she is operating under a delusion. Can Olive/Sophia - under guidance from the Architect - somehow release her from this delusion?

an idea that did pop up in my mind is how Katara could go back in town where the tavern is and form a resistance against the queen, mainly opposed of other poets and maybe even mages.

I'm not sure if they have the time for this?

I am also wondering how we can get the people at the ruined abbey together with Katara and Ravenna

 

[Luxuria]

This tends to suggest the sun should be "out" for not more than a few days.

Agreed. Also, out is different from gone.

We need to get them all together in one spot?

Agreed again. I think keeping everyone together would really help make sure we don't slide into several different plots.

Who do we want to win?

Um... in my opinion. No one. At least not the queen or the architect. I said the Trio should take the throne after the other two are dead.

Can Olive/Sophia - under guidance from the Architect - somehow release her from this delusion?

Maybe. But I must ask why anyone would want this? I doubt the Queen will suddenly be a 'better' person.

 

[ps102]

Yeah, but even if Ravenna won't turn evil, I feel like she needs to consider if she wants the world destroyed. I don't see her as a perfect hero, by any means.

I don't think perfect heroes exist to begin with. I don't see Sophia as one either. She has questioned her role multiple times explicitly and her main motivation is to find peace and live by that sea from her dream visions.

I can picture her questioning it—wouldn't we all? Haha. But that's the whole point. Finding a good answer to this question. Why should the world be saved? And after it is saved, how can it be bettered?

I also think that we must approach God in a very otherwordly and mysterious answer. Framing the architect as a mere God is pretty boring. How many Gods exist? I think we need a more clever and creative approach. A shocking twist perhaps.

For example... the architect doesn't actually exist at all, and the whole world is a dream Sophia is experiencing because she is dying in the real world. In which case, she would be the architect! The fabricator. Let's not go with that, obviously. It'd be too much. But you get the point: it'd be pretty shocking (and cheap).

This is basically what I did for my first ever novel by the way, and I did manage to make it work. But it was pretty difficult.

Well, why don't THEY govern all of existence? They kill Melina and take the throne collectively. Because again, why would we want the Architect to rule if he's done such a shitty job?

There are a couple of reasons.

First, they are humans, and I wouldn't really trust humans to turn into Gods. We're sort of already trying that in real life and we really suck at it. All it would cause is more suffering. Sophia is not perfect—even with Yuuna on her side.

Basically, someone's paradise could be easily someone else's hell.

The only way to fix the world is to reconstruct it from the ground up. The world is made to be finite in resource, and if you think about it, that's largely what is causing most conflict, death and suffering. It's a fundamental flaw.

(She's acting selfish, that's true. But I feel she needs a GOOD reason).

And that's fine. That's why I want to have this discussions now. These are all good questions! If we setup a compelling narrative, it would make posting later so much easier and this roleplay can wrap up faster. We can also avoid plot holes.