The Philosophy Thread

[GrahamLewis]

"It may truthfully be said that the non-mystic rather than the mystic is unusual. He is the over-intellectualized person who sees the world only in sharp outlines grinding on like a soulless machine. Carl Jung speaks of this man as most in need of a psychiatrist. When such a man retires and is forced to withdraw his attention from his business or profession, he finds his world reduced to a flat desert with no mountains reaching above the clouds, no valleys with unseen depths. At that time, reports the psychiatrist, he may dream of a withered tree stripped of its leaves."

Howard Brinton, The Religious Philosophy of Quakerism p. 45 (Pendle Hill 1979).

 

[JLT]

Interesting. I don't own that book, but I do have a book called "Chronicles of the Old Testament Kings" by John Rogerson, which examines those people's lives and comes to the conclusion that quite a lot of it actually is historically verifiable.

New archaeological evidence, maybe? I know it was written long after the Asimov book.

Well, Asimov points out that some of it is historically verifiable, but the history is muddled, as you would expect from oral history. Separate events become conflated, characters that are real are ascribed to the wrong century. And a story is often warped in order to show that it fulfills some sort of prophecy. I doubt that new archeological evidence will come along that will add to the verification of the story.

But Asimov does a good job of teasing out the proper contexts and noticing contradictions.

Note added later: I failed to point out that Asimov talked about the difference between history as we know it and history as it was told in the days of the Bible. Back then, history served the purpose of promoting agendas and explaining circumstances, much like the "Just So" stories we all grew up with. If a fact of history didn't support a thesis, it was cheerfully ignored, because it had no moral relevance.

 

[Homer Potvin]

And a story is often warped in order to show that it fulfills some sort of prophecy

Like how Kim Jung Il invented the cheeseburger?

 

[Trish]

Like how Kim Jung Il invented the cheeseburger?

Double bread with meat. Entirely different. Obviously.

 

[Naomasa298]

No, his philosophy was different. He told everyone that it didn't need to look or taste like a cheeseburger. Or contain cheese, bread or meat.

The important thing was that it felt like a cheeseburger. That's a whole other level of philosophy.

 

[Rath Darkblade]

Like how Kim Jung Il invented the cheeseburger?

King Jung Il never invented the cheeseburger. Gandalf was using the Force on Voldemort, only he didn't know how to do it, and it went awry. ;-P

 

[Luxuria]

...I must confess. Even though I did not enjoy Philopsphy class, I learned a lot and it's a subject that is growing on me. At least once a day, I apply or think about Philosophy. So... do you have any recommendations for Eastern and Western Philosophy books that are easy to understand?

 

[Louanne Learning]

do you have any recommendations for Eastern and Western Philosophy

There is so much good reading out there! I love to learn about new perspectives. History is full of great thinkers.

One I really liked is the 2500 year old - (you can read it for free at the link) -

THE TAO TEH KING, OR THE TAO AND ITS CHARACTERISTICS, by Lao-Tse​

 

[DLC]

...I must confess. Even though I did not enjoy Philopsphy class, I learned a lot and it's a subject that is growing on me. At least once a day, I apply or think about Philosophy. So... do you have any recommendations for Eastern and Western Philosophy books that are easy to understand?

https://ia801809.us.archive.org/12/items/FromALogicalPointOfView/QuineFromALogicalPointOfViewText.pdf

 

[Louanne Learning]

https://ia801809.us.archive.org/12/items/FromALogicalPointOfView/QuineFromALogicalPointOfViewText.pdf

had a peek at the book at the link. Thanks for sharing. It begins this way -

A curious thing about the ontological problem is its simplicity. It can be put in three Anglo-Saxon monosyllables: ‘What is there?’ It can be answered, moreover, in a word-‘Everything’ -and everyone will accept this answer as true. However, this is merely to say that there is what there is. There remains room for disagreement over cases; and the issue has stayed alive down the centuries.

Probably the biggest disagreement in answer to the question "What is there?" is between these two answers -

"Everything is natural."

"Everything can be divided between the natural and the supernatural."

 

[JLT]

Probably the biggest disagreement in answer to the question "What is there?" is between these two answers -

"Everything is natural."

"Everything can be divided between the natural and the supernatural."

Is the thought of a unicorn a real thought?

 

[Louanne Learning]

Is the thought of a unicorn a real thought?

omg, I love this.

Are we the unicorns?

 

[Rath Darkblade]

Is the thought of a unicorn a real thought?

It must be, since someone thought it at some stage.

The thought is real. The fact that unicorns aren't doesn't change that.

omg, I love this.

Are we the unicorns?

Alas, no. We don't have manes, hoofs, or a big horn growing out of our foreheads.

I assume that someone saw a narwhal somewhere and thought "That's so cool! I wonder if there's anything like that on land?"

(But then I looked it up on google, which has this to say:

"Unicorn origins lie in ancient Mesopotamia, India, and China, with early descriptions by Greek historian Ctesias (c. 400 BCE) based on traveler tales, likely describing the Indian rhinoceros. Later myths blended these with symbolic meanings of purity and healing, featuring a horse-like creature with a single horn, popularized by medieval bestiaries and biblical interpretations."

So that's that).

 

[Louanne Learning]

Alas, no. We don't have manes, hoofs, or a big horn growing out of our foreheads.

But can't we be whatever we want to be? Who should determine our identity but us?

 

[Rath Darkblade]

But can't we be whatever we want to be? Who should determine our identity but us?

We can, but within the limits of physics and biology. We can't be beings of pure lithium, say, because physics doesn't work like that. And we can't have manes or hoofs, because our biology doesn't allow us to do so. (That's the realm of science fiction doctors, like Victor Frankenstein).

The saying "You can be whatever you want to be" refers to the profession we choose, not fundamental things like having hoofs or a tail. (Sure, we dress up as unicorns for Hallowe'en. But that's pretense, not real life).

 

[Louanne Learning]

And we can't have manes or hoofs, because our biology doesn't allow us to do so.

But identity is stored in the brain/mind, not the body

 

[Rath Darkblade]

But identity is stored in the brain/mind, not the body

True, but I'm talking about humanity as a whole, not us as individuals.

Humans can't have hooves because our evolutionary lineage developed hands and feet for grasping and walking flat on the ground, not for the specialized, toe-walking structure of hooves, which evolved independently in different animal groups for different needs like running on hard terrain. Developing hooves from our current foot structure would require millions of years of specific evolutionary pressures, and it's unlikely to happen given our current adaptation for complex tool use and upright walking.

Sorry!

 

[Louanne Learning]

Humans can't have hooves because our evolutionary lineage developed hands and feet for grasping and walking flat on the ground, not for the specialized, toe-walking structure of hooves, which evolved independently in different animal groups for different needs like running on hard terrain. Developing hooves from our current foot structure would require millions of years of specific evolutionary pressures, and it's unlikely to happen given our current adaptation for complex tool use and upright walking.

So, I can't be a unicorn?

 

[Rigor Mortis]

So, I can't be a unicorn?

You can be a unicorn so long as you modify your keyboard to accommodate your hooves.

The saying "You can be whatever you want to be" refers to the profession we choose,

That's not what I meant when I said it to my kids.

 

[DLC]

You absolutely can be a unicorn! Just don't expect the rest of the world to buy into your delusion and try have them cancelled when they don't.